When is enough, enough, or how to get off the bandwagon??

DaveyF · May 9, 2012

Today, one of my a'phile friends commented to me that this is his 40th year in the hobby and he still wasn't really that happy with the sound he was getting. OTOH, he gave me a very nice compliment and said that he felt I was pretty close to being there. By there, he apparently meant at a place where the music happened and I shouldn't be expecting too much more. I don't think that is necessarily the case with my system and like all of us, I still want to strive for a more "Absolute Sound". However, this did get me thinking, where do we draw the line on a home system and "get off the bandwagon" or do we/can we?
Food for thought

cjfrbw · May 9, 2012

It's a hobby, the journey and not the destination and all that Zen barf.

JackD201 · May 9, 2012

I'm at that point now. I know because I'm afraid to change anything. I've actually entertained the thought of super glueing everything in place. LOL. That's a pretty good indicator IMO.

Phelonious Ponk · May 9, 2012

Whenever you're ready. It's not the sound; that will never be perfect. It's you. It's the point at which you decide to change hobbies.

Tim

Mike Lavigne · May 9, 2012

i've been very satisfied in the last few years that i'm 'there'.....not in anyone else's view, just mine.

and then i hear something where i get a clear view into 'decidedly better' (hearing the new MM7 first production speaker in the final stages of crossover tweaking right next to MM3's) and my world view recalibrated to a new reference.

i had to ponder the consequences of that revelation for a few days, and then elected to go with that.

had i really been satisfied prior to that event? yes, i think i was.

sorta the same thing with tonearms. i was perfectly contented with the Durand Talea 2, but i was then exposed to the Telos.

i'm not 'on the hunt' for some prize that is eluding me. but my mind and ears will still recognize clear steps onward.

a few years back i was aware i was not wholey satisfied with what i was hearing. but that is not where i have been since that time. so you can be chasing something actively, or you can be just fine but open for it to come to you.

or you can just say stop, i'm no longer interested in any change regardless.

just be happy wherever you are on the path for your own reasons.

Johnny Vinyl · May 9, 2012

My system can be improved a thousand-fold, but yet I am content. Despite the severe limitations of it in comparison to what most member setups are like here on WBF, it brings me immense joy and I'm in no hurry to add or change anything. There is no doubt I would make substantial changes if my budget ever allowed for it, but I don't for a moment yearn for that. One of the things I've learned over time is that being an audiophile in not purely about the components we own, but also about how much love we have for music and that is something I have in spades. Since I recognize that a $5,000 amplifier is not going to be within my reach, or that the beautfilly sexy Oracle Delphi VI will always be just a dream, the focus of attention has been to acquire good recordings on vinyl that I can enjoy. So in that sense, enough is not enough as I continue to look for more.

NorthStar · May 9, 2012

My ultimate goal is to hear "great music" each and every single day,
and heaven in the eternity of times.

* I am living that goal for the last fourty years plus, and it ain't over yet. :b

thedudeabides · May 9, 2012

Phelonious Ponk said:
Whenever you're ready. It's not the sound; that will never be perfect. It's you. It's the point at which you decide to change hobbies.

Tim

Tim,

Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately, some of us forget about why we are in this hobby, which is to enjoy the music.

Gordon

Phelonious Ponk · May 9, 2012

thedudeabides said:
Tim,

Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately, some of us forget about why we are in this hobby, which is to enjoy the music.

Gordon

I don't think that's why most of us are in the hobby.

I don't mean to diminish the music love of audiophiles, I think most of them are very passionate about music. But I've known so many people with huge music collections and incredible knowledge of multiple genres across multiple decades who have done all this listening, hours and hours over many, many years on equipment that audiophiles would not have taken at all seriously. My best friend is a great example. You play that obscure power pop (or prog or R&B or blues or jazz or ambient....) track fron the 80s (or 50s or 2000s or 70s.....) and while you're going "yeah I recognize that...who is that..." he's telling you who played a Hammond B3 on the third track of the album the song you're listening to came from. He can make you feel like you've heard almost nothing. Don't know where he finds the time. These days he mostly streams Spotify through a recent Yamaha receiver into a pair of Def Techs I helped him pick out 20 years ago. And it's not for lack of money.

I'm not saying the audiophile hobby and the music hobby are mutually exclusive. Clearly they're not. But they are separate hobbies. We're in the audiophile hobby because we love the gear. We're in the music hobby because we love the music. Sometimes the audiophile hobby aids and enables the music hobby. Sadly, sometimes it just gets in the way. Whenever anyone says they find a great piece of music unlistenable, my heart aches for them a bit. I don't care if it is <128kbps. They've lost the plot.

Tim

Johnny Vinyl · May 9, 2012

Personally I think they are a great compliment to one another and feed off the others' energy. I don't think you can have one without the other.

jazdoc · May 9, 2012

Phelonious Ponk said:
I don't think that's why most of us are in the hobby.

I don't mean to diminish the music love of audiophiles, I think most of them are very passionate about music. But I've known so many people with huge music collections and incredible knowledge of multiple genres across multiple decades who have done all this listening, hours and hours over many, many years on equipment that audiophiles would not have taken at all seriously. My best friend is a great example. You play that obscure power pop (or prog or R&B or blues or jazz or ambient....) track fron the 80s (or 50s or 2000s or 70s.....) and while you're going "yeah I recognize that...who is that..." he's telling you who played a Hammond B3 on the third track of the album the song you're listening to came from. He can make you feel like you've heard almost nothing. Don't know where he finds the time. These days he mostly streams Spotify through a recent Yamaha receiver into a pair of Def Techs I helped him pick out 20 years ago. And it's not for lack of money.

I'm not saying the audiophile hobby and the music hobby are mutually exclusive. Clearly they're not. But they are separate hobbies. We're in the audiophile hobby because we love the gear. We're in the music hobby because we love the music. Sometimes the audiophile hobby aids and enables the music hobby. Sadly, sometimes it just gets in the way. Whenever anyone says they find a great piece of music unlistenable, my heart aches for them a bit. I don't care if it is <128kbps. They've lost the plot.

Tim

Not much to add to a nearly perfect post

NorthStar · May 9, 2012

Tim is often pretty good. :b

Phelonious Ponk · May 9, 2012

I'll be here all week.

Tim

NorthStar · May 9, 2012

Mike Lavigne · May 9, 2012

Phelonious Ponk said:
I don't think that's why most of us are in the hobby.

I don't mean to diminish the music love of audiophiles, I think most of them are very passionate about music. But I've known so many people with huge music collections and incredible knowledge of multiple genres across multiple decades who have done all this listening, hours and hours over many, many years on equipment that audiophiles would not have taken at all seriously. My best friend is a great example. You play that obscure power pop (or prog or R&B or blues or jazz or ambient....) track fron the 80s (or 50s or 2000s or 70s.....) and while you're going "yeah I recognize that...who is that..." he's telling you who played a Hammond B3 on the third track of the album the song you're listening to came from. He can make you feel like you've heard almost nothing. Don't know where he finds the time. These days he mostly streams Spotify through a recent Yamaha receiver into a pair of Def Techs I helped him pick out 20 years ago. And it's not for lack of money.

I'm not saying the audiophile hobby and the music hobby are mutually exclusive. Clearly they're not. But they are separate hobbies. We're in the audiophile hobby because we love the gear. We're in the music hobby because we love the music. Sometimes the audiophile hobby aids and enables the music hobby. Sadly, sometimes it just gets in the way. Whenever anyone says they find a great piece of music unlistenable, my heart aches for them a bit. I don't care if it is <128kbps. They've lost the plot.

Tim

Tim,

you are inferring that somehow music lovers who are audiophiles have less actual knowledge and experience of music than music lovers who are not audiophiles. as if loving fine audio, quality music reproduction, or great audio gear somehow restricts the love or knowledge of music.

do you really think that?

if not, please clarify what you do mean. i don't want to over react and mis-understand your meaning.

no doubt that there are many many very knowledgable music lovers who are not audiophiles as serious audiophiles are after all a very small group.

i wonder how many serious audiophiles you interact with? i mean really serious. most of my audiophile friends that i interact most with are really serious music lovers with large collections and deep knowledge. vastly more actual knowledge than myself. a few are professional musicians. but there are also many around that are more learners about music, such as myself.

i do think that people who really know music and collect lots of music sometimes are audiophiles and sometimes not. many audiophiles did not go thru life as music experts with big music collections. maybe they found an advanced love of music and audiophilia later in life and have made lots of progress learning and collecting, but will never reach the depth of knowledge that life long music junkies are at.

but the fact that they do not have the actual depth of knowledge of music does not mean it means less.

i hope you don't view the typical participant on the WBF General Audio Discussions forum as a typical audiophile. music lovers? hardly. listeners? seldom. hi end gear owners? unlikely. just read the threads. what percentage of the posts have to do with listening? they are techies with agendas.

NorthStar · May 9, 2012

Interesting acknowledgements Mike. :b

* Listening to Classical Music right now.
...And played Soprano & Alto steel flute (plus sang few French tunes) on Monday for my friend Will,
a professional Irish musician/singer/painter.
And last week my friend Chuck was singing me a tune; another professional musician/singer.
And Chuck's entire family is a professional band.

Tim's also a musician. ...Very nice guitar.

Phelonious Ponk · May 10, 2012

Tim,

you are inferring that somehow music lovers who are audiophiles have less actual knowledge and experience of music than music lovers who are not audiophiles. as if loving fine audio, quality music reproduction, or great audio gear somehow restricts the love or knowledge of music.

do you really think that?

No, I don't mean that at all. That's why I very deliberately made a point of saying that I don't think the hobbies are mutually exclusive. But I do think they are separate hobbies. I know far too many very serious music lovers, amateur musicologists even, who are not audiophiles (which, by the way, does not mean they don't have very good-sounding systems, another, more nuanced, discussion). And I have known a couple of audiophiles who really didn't have much, or play, music, but they are very rare. The oddest breed, or hardest for me to understand, is the music collector who has dozens of discs/files he hasn't even listened to. I've found quite a few of those in the audiophile community. Perhaps it comes with a love of music combined with a lot of disposable income...

Tim

Phelonious Ponk · May 10, 2012

Tim's also a musician. ...Very nice guitar.

Thanks. I assume you're referring to the Gibson I posted in the picture thread. I went through an awful lot of very good guitars to finally call that one the one (well, one of 4). Oddly enough, the guitar I play daily is a weird hybrid electric made in China. The quality of some of the stuff coming out of the east these days is mind-boggling at the prices. It can't last.

Tim

JackD201 · May 10, 2012

Phelonious Ponk said:
No, I don't mean that at all. That's why I very deliberately made a point of saying that I don't think the hobbies are mutually exclusive. But I do think they are separate hobbies. I know far too many very serious music lovers, amateur musicologists even, who are not audiophiles (which, by the way, does not mean they don't have very good-sounding systems, another, more nuanced, discussion). And I have known a couple of audiophiles who really didn't have much, or play, music, but they are very rare. The oddest breed, or hardest for me to understand, is the music collector who has dozens of discs/files he hasn't even listened to. I've found quite a few of those in the audiophile community. Perhaps it comes with a love of music combined with a lot of disposable income...

Tim

You could add disposable time to that. Sometimes it's just so much easier to pull out or cue up old favorites. The only time I get to explore is on Sunday afternoons when I'm not tired.

JackD201 · May 10, 2012

Phelonious Ponk said:
No, I don't mean that at all. That's why I very deliberately made a point of saying that I don't think the hobbies are mutually exclusive. But I do think they are separate hobbies. I know far too many very serious music lovers, amateur musicologists even, who are not audiophiles (which, by the way, does not mean they don't have very good-sounding systems, another, more nuanced, discussion). And I have known a couple of audiophiles who really didn't have much, or play, music, but they are very rare. The oddest breed, or hardest for me to understand, is the music collector who has dozens of discs/files he hasn't even listened to. I've found quite a few of those in the audiophile community. Perhaps it comes with a love of music combined with a lot of disposable income...

Tim

You could add disposable time to that. Sometimes it's just so much easier to pull out or cue up old favorites. The only time I get to explore is on Sunday afternoons when I'm not tired.

When is enough, enough, or how to get off the bandwagon??

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