Michael Fremer on Audio
- Thread starter Gregadd
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you talking about the 'second part' greg? or the first, the rant?
all of us understand the second part, yes even those he derides.
the first part is surely a game, 'how many strawmen can you count?'
all of us understand the second part, yes even those he derides.
the first part is surely a game, 'how many strawmen can you count?'
Even visitor audiophiles think I have my center channel turned on during stereo playback when it isn't, I often have to show them it isn't on. I guess that is good imaging.
I do like my AAC mac mini server with Stax headphones and 300b amp, though, it is surprising how much information the AAC retains.
Entertaining rant, nontheless.
I do like my AAC mac mini server with Stax headphones and 300b amp, though, it is surprising how much information the AAC retains.
Entertaining rant, nontheless.
Hello, Terry. Second part, here. Perhaps I should have clarified before posting. [36 seconds and on to 1:42]
Tom
No, which is why I asked. After all, you did post the video, I assume it was for a reason, so I asked.
I think we all have had similar experiences as he recounts after the silly rant, even down to the 'hey, it comes from the middle!'
Unlike mike, I just smiled and refrained from saying 'it's supposed to'.
Michael Fremer and I come from two different worlds. In his world you shop around for what you like however you do it and you buy it. Then when you don't like it anymore, you shop around for something else you like better. The process repeats itself endlessly until you run out of money or you die. If you have enough money you fall for practically every sucker trick out there you hear of sooner or later no matter how preposterous and no matter how much it costs. I think Fremer has a $150,000 turntable and a pair of Wilson Alexandria III speakers that cost $150,000 or more. He also demagnetizes his records. I'm sure the rest of his audio system is in the same high price bracket. In my world when you find you don't like something you bought, you try to figure out why and see what can be done about fixing it. If you can't fix it, at least you don't go out and buy the same kind of thing again only "better." Both vinyl phonograph records and compact discs have their problems. I've got around 3000 of each, maybe more, I gave up counting a long time ago and somehow they still keep coming here even though I no longer shop for either of them. IMO the problems of the sound of CDs can be fixed, the problems of the sound of phonograph records can't. The problems and limitatons of phonograph records are inherent in the concept.
Michael Fremer is a reviewer. That means manufacturers who believe they can make a better product submit them to him for evaluation. He has found many of them have made a better product. He has decided to make some of them his own.
The problems of vinyl are well documented. All of them by their proponents. Digital continues to go down. Does vinyl have the equivalent of MP3? Indeed digital looking for something less than MP3. Does vinyl have something called lossy vs lossless?
The problems of vinyl are well documented. All of them by their proponents. Digital continues to go down. Does vinyl have the equivalent of MP3? Indeed digital looking for something less than MP3. Does vinyl have something called lossy vs lossless?
I don't understand the issue with MP3. Lossy digital format and mass distribution thereof is one of the main reason the music industry is surviving as we move to the digital / network age. Everything starts with content. If artists cannot make a living, everyone loses. If a lot of people enjoy music without being concerned about sound quality what is the big deal? Give them what they want. This is not the nail in the coffin of high end audio. It is the lifeblood of high end audio because it creates a viable industry for the content producers.
If someone want to play LPs on their ultra expensive turntable, good for them. If someone want to squeeze the most of digital through their >50K "DCS stack" fine. This is no reason to be dismissive about other formats that cater to other markets.
Of course, digital does not continue to go down. Digital has never sounded better, and price performance continues to improve spectacularly.
The truth is that digital is the most widely accepted format for industry and consumer. When the recording was originally done in digital, it's much more likely to sound better in the native format given high quality sever and converter. The ironic thing about people like Fremer is that they lament the lack of MSM coverage, but continue to assert that vinyl is ALWYAS better than digital. Maybe he's just conflating mp3 with the rest of digital. He sounded very upset, so maybe his mouth wasn't properly connected to his brain.
"Does vinyl have the equivalent of MP3?" "Does vinyl have something called lossy vs lossless?"
Vinyl IS the equivalent of MP3. Vinyl is inherently a lossy system. Talk about a bad idea. First of all you need 40 db of RIAA equalization just to get it to work. Then you need dynamic compression so that you don't exceed the limits on one hand of overmodulating the grooves, especially in the bass and losing the treble part of the signal to background noise. I think in most vinyl recordings the bass is monophonic anyway. Now Fremer tells us you not only have to have the steady hand and patience of a watchmaker to optimally adjust a turntable and tonearm, you need a digital microscope to align the cartridge properly to a 92 degree rake angle. If all this wasn't bad enough, most vinyl recordings were made from analog magnetic tape masters. To keep tape hiss down, especially on wide dynamic range material like classical music, you have to process the signal through two electronic meat grinders called Dolby A professional, once on recording and again on playback during the recording process. (Small wonder today many vinyls are being made from digital tape masters.) And then there's the problem that the recording itself is so fragile and easily physically compromised or ruined. A piece of dust lodged in the grooves that won't come out sounds like a blast of TNT. Just a fingerprint is enough to do it. You practically need to wear surgical gloves to avoid just that. One scratch and goodbye forever to whatever it had to offer. And of course you wear it out each time you listen to it.
It is a testament to those who made vinyl records back in the day that they did as well as they did with such an inferior and limited technology. I don't think we see their equal today very much. Making such fine recordings especially in the mixdown editing is becoming a lost art.
It is also a blatently elitist. Even if you buy into the idea that the best sound quality achievable is based on vinyl, the guys making this argument are the Fremers of the world with $150,000 tables. If you have a few grand to spend, are not interested in fiddling with cardriges, phono preamps, records cleaners and you loath the idea of having to walk up to your TT to change a tracks every 10-30 minutes, digital is a complete and utter no brainer, and spending your money on analog / vinyl is an excercise in audio-masochims.
I have had a high end audio system for close to 40 years and in that time, many have come and listened. And not one has ever responded like Mike suggests his friends do.
Some are baffled why anyone would have large boxes/panels/ etc in their room and they wouldn't do it even though they think the sound is amazing.
Others think (but don't say) that I am clearly certifiably insane
Others enjoy the music but would never ever consider owning such a system
Others hear nothing different than they hear anywhere else but smile nicely.
Folks, this is a very very very small market. There are approximately 125,000,000 families in the US. I would bet there are less than 125,000 families with systems where the MSRP is over $10,000. But even if there are 1.25 million, that still comprises a whopping 1%.
As for all of the rest of Mickey's rant, that is Mickey !!
Some are baffled why anyone would have large boxes/panels/ etc in their room and they wouldn't do it even though they think the sound is amazing.
Others think (but don't say) that I am clearly certifiably insane
Others enjoy the music but would never ever consider owning such a system
Others hear nothing different than they hear anywhere else but smile nicely.
Folks, this is a very very very small market. There are approximately 125,000,000 families in the US. I would bet there are less than 125,000 families with systems where the MSRP is over $10,000. But even if there are 1.25 million, that still comprises a whopping 1%.
As for all of the rest of Mickey's rant, that is Mickey !!
Imagine that and it is still the best sounding format next to master Reel tape. You can't fix bad/brickwalled/compressed/normalized digital.
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