Really? Anywhere else?? You need to clarify that statement. U.S. labor costs are more expensive than: China, Bangladesh, Pakistan? How about European countries?
Really?? THIS is how you chose to start your argument? Frankly, I don't think I need to clarify my statement one bit. You want to know why? Because it really doesn't make one bit of difference! SO WHAT, if it happens to be slightly more expensive in the E.U. versus the U.S. The point was that the cost of labor in the U.S. is far higher than in China. That was CLEARLY the contrast I was making. Are you ready to try and tell me that THIS is not true? FFS!!!
I disagree. The design and execution of the speaker box has great importance on the quality of the finished speakers. Of course you need good drivers and a good crossover network, but if the cabinet is not designed properly and isn't built to a high standard, the speaker system will not perform very well.
I stand by my statement.
And I can't even believe I'm wasting my time responding to this one. But, hey, what the hell?
Where exactly, in the part that you quoted, did I claim that speaker box design was not important. OR even mildly important? Did I NOT also bring up Rockport and CLEARLY defend their designs? And where exactly is the company in question that is not building a cabinet to a "high standard"?? There are three distinct cabinet design philosophies that have been presented here. (Evolution Acoustics, Magico, Rockport) All three are very different from each other. But ALL of them are serious and credible efforts. And I STILL say that the drivers and circuit design is what makes or breaks a speaker. Only cabinet makers think that the majority of performance is a product of the cabinet. Beyond a certain minimal level of cabinet design, it's mostly about the circuit. And, yeah, I expect that you'll want me to back that statement up as well. I'll save you the effort. It's just my opinion..... But I think MOST professional speaker designers would agree with me.
I have, admittedly a hobbyist experience, but experience non-the-less at building all of the associated parts in a speaker. Literally, from scratch. Aluminum cabinets, Carbon Matrix cabinets, wood cabinets, capacitors, coils, graphite resistors, and drivers. And while I don't claim to be an expert, it is still my contention that the design of the circuit outweighs the design of the cabinet when it comes to final performance.
Unless you listen to them. And by the way, have you actually listened to them both or is this all just your opinions and conjecture?
If I seem really snarky in my response to your statements, you can safely bet that this quote is the reason why. I generally have a lot of patience for online debates and arguments. I usually make great effort to understand a persons perspective, even if they seem negative to me. And I seriously try (though, admittedly, often fail) to make my own posts as clear as possible. But I'll be honest. What I truly can't stand are indignant people who ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION!
So, just for you Mep, I'll point you to the VERY FIRST sentences of my original post.........
"I've heard the MMMicro1s and they are a very good speaker. I've also heard the Magico Q1 and think they aren't too shabby either."
Does THAT answer your question?
You are beginning to sound like a plant for EA. I think the drivers and crossover components in the Q1s are far more expensive than what is in the MMMicroOne speakers. What makes you think that there is more technical experience at EA than Magico?
Yeah, I love this one too. Nothing like being accused of something by some faceless dude who doesn't know **** about you. But since you brought it up, I'll tell you exactly the extent of my connection to EA. Not long after I first heard the MMMicro1 I sent an email to Johnathan Tinn inquiring on two things. First was to find out when exactly the little speakers would be available and then whether or not they were expecting any sort of payment to "get in line". I received one response from Tinn thanking me for my interest and giving me a general idea of when they (at the time) expected the MMMicro1 to be available. I, in turn, replied with a follow up email asking if there was any place within driving distance from me that I could hear the MM3. I never heard back from Tinn regarding that question, or indeed, ever again. I was put off by this lack of response and never seriously looked at EA again. End of story. I ain't mad at the guy. I just lost interest.
Now let me ask....... Since my original post I spent a fair bit of effort also defending Rockport. Am I starting to sound like a plant for them as well?
With regard to driver and crossover components.... EA claims that they are using premium crossover parts in their speakers. I have no reason to doubt them. And, yes, Magico is using some of the MOST expensive crossover parts out there. But so are other speakers I know of that are far less expensive. And, once again, "most expensive" does not directly equate with "best".
With regards to the cost of drivers...... I don't know your background, but I'm having trouble believing that you seriously know what you are talking about here. Granted, there is a lot I don't know either. But I DO have experience in enough areas that I can can speak somewhat intelligently on these types of drivers. I've actually tinkered around enough to make my own carbon fiber drivers, from scratch. Literally using CAD to first design and then have the metal parts fabricated for me (by a machine shop). And I actually have professional experience working with the highest grades of carbon fiber, so those parts I made myself. (Which is why it's actually Rockport that, between these three companies anyway, that I'm most fond of.)
So I know for sure that the Magico drivers are not FAR more expensive than the EA drivers. Certainly not 10X the cost. (The relative cost differential between the two speakers) I can't claim to know exactly what it costs to make the ceramic elements that goes into an EA driver. But I know that making those are beyond my reach. The Magico design, not so much.
Lastly, it's only an opinion that I would give EA the edge on technical experience. But that opinion is not created out of thin air. I think that for two reasons. First is that Kevin Malmgren was formerly at Von Schweikert. I'm guessing he gained a fair bit of experience there. Not to mention the fact that Albert hired him in the first place. So I'm assuming whatever he did before there wasn't anything to sneeze at. I also know that the VS circuit designs are fundamentally different from what he is doing at EA. So the guy obviously has a certain breadth of knowledge.
Of course, this doesn't mean that I don't respect Alon. I actually have a lot of respect for the man. Fact is, I knew of Alon long before most of the butt kissers did. (And, NO, I don't think that all Magico fanboys are butt kissers.) It's just a lucky matter of "who you know", but I'm only one person removed (Ie. a friend of a friend) from one of the three guys who invested with Alon before he actually had built much of anything. I distinctly remember hearing about "these crazy huge aluminum horns that this guy in California is making". I remember seeing some of Alon's early prototypes. And I've been a somewhat curious outsider who has been following his evolution ever since.
Does this make me an expert in these two men? Absolutely not. It's just that, if I were to be made to state who I thought had a little more expertise, I would choose Kevin. Just based on his resume, never actually having met the guy. Either way, there can be no doubt that these two men are at least on equal footing. Which goes to my original point. That the EA is JUST as competently designed as the Magico.
And I don't have to be connected to EA in any way to recognize that these two speakers ARE, despite their massively different prices, on equal footing with each other when it comes to performance.
