DaveC's RMAF 2016 Best In Show: Austin Acoustic

[amirm]

Here is another review of the room from Rafe Arnott: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/10/15/rmaf-2016-austin-acoustics-smashes-the-wall-of-sound/

"All this rambling brings us to the sound… which I have to say was not as rich, or lush as I expected. Even with a rather liberal amount of in-room acoustic panels set up, there was a stridency, and edge to what I was hearing. I’m not sure if the room was simply completely overloading or what, but I feel like the crew from Austin Acoustic wouldn’t have brought this gear all the way to Denver if the sonics weren’t bang on, so perhaps something else was at play. Whatever the reason, I feel like this is a system worth my time to hear again, and hopefully the issues the kit seemed to suffer in the Mile-High City won’t be present next time."

I don't know if any of these other reviewers are right. But what is for certain, so far I have not found a review that has any praise for the room on audio front let alone being a pinnacle of audio reproduction and better than anything out there. I will keep looking though.

 

[DaveyF]

Amir, the Austin system clearly did not meet your tastes. It obviously met with Dave C's...and he enjoyed the sound greatly. Perhaps, that is all that we can ask for in this hobby. What floats one persons boat doesn't necessarily have to float another's. I believe this to be a good thing, as it accounts for the varying types of music that we have available....some love classical ( some hate it), some love jazz ( some hate it), etc. To me it's all good. The old saying-- YMMV-- seems most appropriate here.

 

[ddk]

ddk and Amir, I'm just going to ignore you guys, I'm not responding. You two should be embarrassed by what you wrote. How Steve tolerates this is beyond me. Conjecture from people that have never or barely heard the system is all that's here. Ridiculous and really ugly. I feel bad for you guys, full of hate and just nasty. Amir in particular is one of the nastiest trolls I've ever seen online and I can't believe Steve doesn't ban him. Steve, why did you open the thread back up? We need more of this? Really? Please close it unless all you want is more trainwreck. But I'm not going to participate and will probably never post a review here again.

Dave, it's not a train wreck as long as you stay on track talking about the speakers and not the members! I really have no personal argument with you or that you found something you really like but these speakers are my space. I've heard many such DIY jobs and much, much better ones too as well as putting a couple together myself. Don't need to hear this one to know what it is. Actually I still have that same Accuphase crossover with many of the cards, several different Altec and JBL woofers, and various plans for bass bins, all for sale at a small fraction of $350k. I can give you a line to find used ALE/Gotto drivers, also at a fraction of the claimed $50k/pair!

You've made your own horn speakers, this is another diy attempt but minus the horns. Sometimes I mix and match vintage speakers the same way but never claimed that they were anything more than that. You can make them a simple two way or a complex 10 way, single amp or multi amp'd crossover and integration is always the challenge; that Accuphase isn't the answer.

These AA speakers are nothing more than a very basic woofer box and pair of standard Japanese compression drivers dropped on top, nothing more. Multi-amping the setup isn't necessary either but it looks good and he's also forced too with the Accuphase crossover. Unfortunately those 20 watt SETs aren't the best match for the large woofers, they need a lot more power than that. $350k, for this stuff? Come on...

FYI the best of this type of project I've heard is Romy the Cat's system, his implementation is impeccable and seamless. There's a lot of information on his site while he was developing the system.

david

 

[DaveC]

That's pretty funny ddk... I've also heard a lot of speakers with very similar looking drivers that sound completely different from one another. Even speakers using the SAME drivers that sound VERY different from one another. Imagine that... it's not JUST the drivers, it's the implementation. Since you haven't even heard the system, why even bother having such strong opinions? You have no clue because you haven't heard it. And there lies the problem, and it's with a couple of the posters in this thread. No way around it. A couple of mean, nasty people posting strong opinions on a system they are mostly unfamiliar with. If you can't see the problem here... and obviously you don't... then I don't know what to say. This same crap has repeated itsself too many times on this forum and I'm out. I won't be posting a review here again!

 

[DaveyF]

Dave, it's not a train wreck as long as you stay on track talking about the speakers and not the members! I really have no personal argument with you or that you found something you really like but these speakers are my space. I've heard many such DIY jobs and much, much better ones too as well as putting a couple together myself. Don't need to hear this one to know what it is. Actually I still have that same Accuphase crossover with many of the cards, several different Altec and JBL woofers, and various plans for bass bins, all for sale at a small fraction of $350k. I can give you a line to find used ALE/Gotto drivers, also at a fraction of the claimed $50k/pair!

You've made your own horn speakers, this is another diy attempt but minus the horns. Sometimes I mix and match vintage speakers the same way but never claimed that they were anything more than that. You can make them a simple two way or a complex 10 way, single amp or multi amp'd crossover and integration is always the challenge; that Accuphase isn't the answer.

These AA speakers are nothing more than a very basic woofer box and pair of standard Japanese compression drivers dropped on top, nothing more. Multi-amping the setup isn't necessary either but it looks good and he's also forced too with the Accuphase crossover. Unfortunately those 20 watt SETs aren't the best match for the large woofers, they need a lot more power than that. $350k, for this stuff? Come on...

FYI the best of this type of project I've heard is Romy the Cat's system, his implementation is impeccable and seamless. There's a lot of information on his site while he was developing the system.

david

David, I think you bring up a very good point about the "value" of these speakers. To me, they look WAY overpriced at a fraction of their asking price. But, I think that the manufacturer isn't interested in my kind at all. Instead, I believe that they are looking for the guy ( or gal) who has enough money that $350K for these speakers is less than pocket change. That person is not concerned at all with the price, more concerned with adding another trophy to his ( perhaps hers---although here I VERY seriously doubt it---boy toys etc) collection.
Now, whether this particular business plan for the manufacturer is actually sensible or valid is another question. The constant search for the "1 percenter" or the "a sucker is born every minute" type of consumer is most likely not that productive in the long run.
To you and I, this type of pricing may be abhorrent; but to the other guy...the guy who is worth multiple billions of $$ ( and there are a surprising number these days) this price really is peanuts!

 

[DaveC]

Personally, I find the price ridiculous but I'm not in the habit of making value judgements for other people.

 

[DaveyF]

Personally, I find the price ridiculous but I'm not in the habit of making value judgements for other people.

Precisely, and neither am I.
BTW, I am questioning why a few dissenting opinions would lead you to the opinion and ultimatum that you have stated. Your review was very interesting to me ( and I suspect many other members as well).

 

[DaveC]

Precisely, and neither am I.
BTW, I am questioning why a few dissenting opinions would lead you to the opinion and ultimatum that you have stated. Your review was very interesting to me ( and I suspect many other members as well).

I've said it a few times already and am not going to beat that dead horse!

But also I don't take it too personally, Peter B and Andre Marc felt much stronger than I do about the topic... I'm not saying I'll never post here but I'll probably never post another review of anything.

 

[ddk]

That's pretty funny ddk... I've also heard a lot of speakers with very similar looking drivers that sound completely different from one another. Even speakers using the SAME drivers that sound VERY different from one another. Imagine that... it's not JUST the drivers, it's the implementation. Since you haven't even heard the system, why even bother having such strong opinions? You have no clue because you haven't heard it. And there lies the problem, and it's with a couple of the posters in this thread. No way around it. A couple of mean, nasty people posting strong opinions on a system they are mostly unfamiliar with. If you can't see the problem here... and obviously you don't... then I don't know what to say. This same crap has repeated itsself too many times on this forum and I'm out. I won't be posting a review here again!

I can accept your argument to an extent if there was a design or even a simple build, there's absolutely no implementation of any kind here, nothing, nada, not even a very basic mid horn! Just plopped a couple of drivers on a basic woofer box and connected a bunch of amps using the Accuphase asking a fantasy price. You're only telling me that I'm not supposed to have an opinion about something I'm very familiar with but not where I'm wrong about my assessment of this kit.

david

 

[DaveyF]

I've said it a few times already and am not going to beat that dead horse!

But also I don't take it too personally, Peter B and Andre Marc felt much stronger than I do about the topic... I'm not saying I'll never post here but I'll probably never post another review of anything.

?? ----

It would seem that you did indeed take the negative "opinions" ( and that is IMO all that they are...and nothing more) very much to heart...why?

I believe Peter B left for the simple reason that he did not like his "authority" taken into question...nothing more and nothing less than that. Andre had another reason, one which I tend to concur with.

 

[DaveC]

I can accept your argument to an extent if there was a design or even a simple build, there's absolutely no implementation of any kind here, nothing, nada, not even a very basic mid horn! You're only telling me that I'm not supposed to have an opinion about something I'm very familiar with but not wrong about my assessment of this kit.

david

C'mon! The mid horn only cover down to 800 Hz so it's small but is certainly a horn, check the pics! The tweeter has a horn too, but from the size of it, it's more of a super tweeter. The horn might be 2" diameter or so, about the same as most horn super tweeters.

Nobody complains the JBL M2, Everest, GedLee speakers, and on and on... are only horns down to 800 Hz or so. Not sure why this is different? It's fairly similar in design and execution to these speakers. Most people can't fit a large horn system in their house. It's a compromise but that's the name of the game!

 

[ddk]

David, I think you bring up a very good point about the "value" of these speakers. To me, they look WAY overpriced at a fraction of their asking price. But, I think that the manufacturer isn't interested in my kind at all. Instead, I believe that they are looking for the guy ( or gal) who has enough money that $350K for these speakers is less than pocket change. That person is not concerned at all with the price, more concerned with adding another trophy to his ( perhaps hers---although here I VERY seriously doubt it---boy toys etc) collection.
Now, whether this particular business plan for the manufacturer is actually sensible or valid is another question. The constant search for the "1 percenter" or the "a sucker is born every minute" type of consumer is most likely not that productive in the long run.
To you and I, this type of pricing may be abhorrent; but to the other guy...the guy who is worth multiple billions of $$ ( and there are a surprising number these days) this price really is peanuts!

Davey, the question isn't about the price, I only brought it up initially because of Dave C's comment on ethics. Fact is that there's no speaker here to speak of. A very basic woofer box, home built or purchased installed an off the shelf woofer and plopped two off the shelf drivers on top it, do you call this manufacturing? This all you're looking at in the pictures.

david

 

[DaveyF]

Davey, the question isn't about the price, I only brought it up initially because of Dave C's comment on ethics. Fact is that there's no speaker here to speak of. A very basic woofer box, home built or purchased installed an off the shelf woofer and plopped two off the shelf drivers on top it, do you call this manufacturing? This all you're looking at in the pictures.

david

David, what you said could be applied to many other speakers on the market. I think what you are saying does indeed attach to the value and vis a vis, the price asked.

 

[ddk]

C'mon! The mid horn only cover down to 800 Hz so it's small but is certainly a horn, check the pics! The tweeter has a horn too, but from the size of it, it's more of a super tweeter. The horn might be 2" diameter or so, about the same as most horn super tweeters.

Nobody complains the JBL M2, Everest, GedLee speakers, and on and on... are only horns down to 800 Hz or so. Not sure why this is different? It's fairly similar in design and execution to these speakers. Most people can't fit a large horn system in their house. It's a compromise but that's the name of the game!

That piece of wood is an 800hz horn? Love to see the math for this one ! Which opens the other can of worms about his bass bin's dimensions...

You're comparing JBL's best to a box with two drivers plopped on top? Come on Dave you know better, can't figure out your crusade for this guy.

david

 

[ddk]

David, what you said could be applied to many other speakers on the market. I think what you are saying does indeed attach to the value and vis a vis, the price asked.

That might be DaveyF but at least they try to cover it with furniture!

david

 

[DaveC]

David, what you said could be applied to many other speakers on the market. I think what you are saying does indeed attach to the value and vis a vis, the price asked.

Exactly... How many speakers out there use Accuton, Raal, Seas, SS, etc? drivers in a box? Hmm... most of them? Yeah... not sure if this is a double standard unless ddk happens to feel that way about a majority of speakers on the market. IMO speaker design is a high-level (broad, general) design exercise of juggling compromises. It's not exactly rocket science when it comes down to it, implementation of drivers is fairly straightforward, especially with design software available these days. It's the overall concept that matters more and TBH I thought the Austin system would suck when I first saw it as it's only a horn speaker from 800 Hz up, but after listening my initial thoughts were proven wrong.

BTW, Austin does say their compression drivers are specially designed and manufactured to their own specs, so not off-the-shelf... but even if they were, so many other companies use ots drivers in their speakers without so much criticism...

As I said, I won't get into the value aspect but I can agree that they could have made it look nicer, which would go a long way to keep assumptions like ddk's at bay. Looks are possibly more important than sound quality... for some...

Also, I think we can figure out the math for an 800 Hz horn... it doesn't need to be that large. Although it may be the case that Austin's 800 Hz horn is a touch undersized, it's only the results that matter. Looking at the system, I did not have high hopes and I thought it was hopelessly compromised. Listening proved otherwise. Sometimes, it helps to keep an open mind and refrain from forming strong opinions when we don't have enough information.

On the bass bin, how are it's dimensions a problem? Without knowing what driver they're using, and also not knowing if it's ported or sealed, that's one heck of a leap! I thought the bass bin would be far more of an issue than it was... again listening proved my initial impressions wrong. It's not the best bass I've ever heard... in fact I'd say my speaker is a bit better ... but it wasn't so bad as to become distracting... it did a decent job blending with the mids/highs, not perfect but better than I expected.

 

[Leif S]

Hey.........leave Accuton out of this lol

 

[spiritofmusic]

Wow, this is either the most unintentionally hilarious, or most predictably depressing, thread I've ever had the joy, or misfortune, to follow on WBF
So much for wanting to catch up with the scope of offerings at RMAF

 

[NorthStar]

... I don't take it too personally, Peter B and Andre Marc felt much stronger than I do about the topic... I'm not saying I'll never post here but I'll probably never post another review of anything.

Dave, don't let anyone dictate the course of your love and passion; I love reading your reviews and comments on all things audio.
What you bring is the development of our own vision through yours. Forget the people who have different views and music taste; this is yours, and these are theirs.

* I've never heard of that company, I have zero idea on their sound philosophy. I just love to read about it; from you, and from everyone else.

 

[rbbert]

I've said it a few times already and am not going to beat that dead horse!

But also I don't take it too personally, Peter B and Andre Marc felt much stronger than I do about the topic... I'm not saying I'll never post here but I'll probably never post another review of anything.

I think Andre Marc is a poor example to demonstrate your point of view, since he has left virtually all the audio forums over the last year of so, and no longer appears to have his own site either

edit: I guess his site is still up, just at a different domain