My next Phonostage ? Boulder 2008 or CH Precision P1 or?

[kodomo]

I am really wondering how the VDH Grail and Grail Super Balanced stacks against these heavy hitters. There are not many reviews on them except a few rare user reviews. A few months ago, Fremer rated the single ended version nearly as high as P1and even liked its midrange a little more. If so, then the "better" Super Balanced version may be one of the best deals on current based phono preamps...

Anyone who has any observations on how Grail stacks against these ultra expensive preamps? Shakti told me Grail is very good for its price but what does it miss that these uber preamps do? I am asking because I can wait some more and get one of those instead of a Grail... I aim to use it with a 1.1mV Master Sig. Strad. African Grenadille. I though a lower output one may fit better with the Grail but when I asked VDH, they recommended the 1.1mV with it.

 

[bonzo75]

Fremer has compared CH to grail but it is not online you will have to subscribe to read. Iirc July or August issue

 

[kodomo]

Fremer has compared CH to grail but it is not online you will have to subscribe to read. Iirc July or August issue

Yes, I have it. That is why I said, he rated Grail as high as p1 sonically and even preferred its midrange liquidity better than p1. The p1 had more features and inputs to its advantage. At least that is what I got out of the article after reading it. I attach it here, if it is against the rules, administrators can remove the content I attach.

 

[bonzo75]

You might have to delete that for copyright issues

 

[shakti]

Jürgen Ultee , the designer behind the vdh Grail is always continuing to improve the Grail,
so the actual version (2018 built) is better than the former versions, an OP in the entry circuit was exchanged to get an even better "black". The original Design was Single Ended, so the XLR version is just 2 SET versions in one chassis. In my personal oppinion you should not use carts above 50ohm DC with the Grail, as the "current" circuit (similar to P1) compromises higher values, so just have fun to explore. You will find out, it is a good PhonoPre, but still some way to reach the level of a P1 or 2008.

 

[kodomo]

Shakti, can you let me/us know the difference in sound from grail to grail SB and grail sb to p1 please?

I am very interested in what you will say as you had that experience with Kuzma 4 point with cardas wiring and a vdh master sig cart. This is what I have (when the cartridge arrives) as well.

 

[shakti]

Grail to Grail SB has only a sound difference, if you use the Grail in an real balanced connection , if your Pre / Amp is SET, the standard Grail is ok.

The P1 has a voltage and a current gain stage. They do sound different. The Grail sounds similar to the current stage, as the grail is using the same technology.

But P1 is still in another league in all aspects.
At least from my memory.

Saying, the Grail sounds like P1 is not wrong, as both go into one direction, but the P1 is doing this a step further.

If we are talking the Mater Signature in particular, the Grail is a good combination.
Many MC stages do use Step Up's, which is not perfect for the Master Signature .

 

[airbearing]

I am using Vishai resistors in my Boulder 2008.
You need to load more than recommended.
100 or 200 is usually not enough for LOMCs.

The Boulder is an animal you have to deal with.
Most give up, and most did not hear the Boulder in its best ways.
Using MM is a solution but the cards with the appropriate/inappropriate resistors is the better solution.

Best
E.

www.audiocirc.com

 

[bazelio]

.
Many MC stages do use Step Up's, which is not perfect for the Master Signature .

Could you explain this further? I think a SUT with a higher winding impedance should be fine. But a lot of SUTs won't have a good impedance match to the Master Signature.

 

[airbearing]

I am on your side Shakti, using many SUTs (over 15) in my phono chains (see www.audiocirc.com, older postings).
I am a SUT Fan! Regarding the Boulder I made the experience with 40O Ohms for LOMCs less than 10 Ohms internal resistance of the cart, and 800 Ohms for carts around 40 Ohms (Goldfinger v2) that it sounds more powerful, warmer, but still even more precise than with SUTs (Kondo M7, Silvercore - 20 Ohms).

Did you get the other two RIAA curves?

Best
E.

 

[shakti]

Did you get the other two RIAA curves?

No, I always worked with the standard RIAA

 

[airbearing]

They can provide it in your area (BT) if you have old records and motivation.

Another question: I saw you used the Kondo M7. Which tubes would you recommend exchanging with the standard ones?

Best
E.

www.audiocirc.com

 

[shakti]

Another question: I saw you used the Kondo M7. Which tubes would you recommend exchanging with the standard ones?

The M7 reacts on tube rolling like other gear as well, you can hear the character of different tubes.
If you change the tubes, you change a little bit the Kondo DNA.
I used NOS Philips / Valvo types, which was nice fit to my set up, but other set ups may require other tubes.

 

[airbearing]

Thank you Shakti. I will look out for improving one of my two Kondo chains (M7 & KSL SFz) by exchanging tubes.

View attachment 56561

 

[airbearing]

Shakti, in your images I see the Boulder power supply is placed beneath the pre. Boulder recommends to separate each unit.

How do you like the CH1 phono?

Best
E.

www.audiocirc.com