Supertweeters - What's the good, bad, and ugly? Anyone using successfully? Anyone try and decide against?
- Thread starter caesar
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Yes, they've been around since the mid-70's at least. I use one with my full range driver system to supplement frequencies above 16Khz. It adds overall dimensionality to the sound, increases definition in bass instruments, and of course adds sparkle and airiness to the treble.
My original is a Raven R1 supertweeter with a custom crossover. But I recently switched to an Aperion dipole AMT supertweeter that allows you to adjust output and frequency cut in. It mates extremely well with my system.
My original is a Raven R1 supertweeter with a custom crossover. But I recently switched to an Aperion dipole AMT supertweeter that allows you to adjust output and frequency cut in. It mates extremely well with my system.
I have a pair of TakeT Live arriving from Atelier 13 tomorrow. I wanted an omnidirectional design, and the TakeT Live seemed promising. There's a very recent review at dagogo.com, where Ed Momkus has also reviewed the Kan Sound Lab Mewon TS-001 and Townshend Maximum.
I'll report when I have a vague idea what I'm talking about!
I think that a primary difference between today's supertweeters and those of earlier decades is that today's units make no pretense about their output being directly audible. This peer-reviewed academic paper, however, explains that inaudible frequencies can still result in psychoacoustic effects: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/jn.2000.83.6.3548
What I don't understand, however, is how relevant effects can be achieved when recording and playback technologies intentionally restrict frequency response ranges.
I'll report when I have a vague idea what I'm talking about!
I think that a primary difference between today's supertweeters and those of earlier decades is that today's units make no pretense about their output being directly audible. This peer-reviewed academic paper, however, explains that inaudible frequencies can still result in psychoacoustic effects: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/jn.2000.83.6.3548
What I don't understand, however, is how relevant effects can be achieved when recording and playback technologies intentionally restrict frequency response ranges.
I used Decca Ribbons (which I still have) to supplement Quad 57s in a mini-HQD (no 24" sub) system. I later switched to Sequerra ribbons which were still being made- and got a chance to talk to Dick. This was many years ago. Trying to mate super tweets or woofers to old Quads was not an easy task. I still have the Quads, restored, but no add-ons. Supertweets were used on things like big Bozaks and other huge old cabinets back in the day, so I wouldn't think of them as new.
The ribbons did give broader dispersion to the head in a vice character of the 57 tweeter panel, but I found that trade off easier to live with than trying to do bass at that time (subwoofers weren't so common in the era- say, late '70s to mid-'80s).
The ribbons did give broader dispersion to the head in a vice character of the 57 tweeter panel, but I found that trade off easier to live with than trying to do bass at that time (subwoofers weren't so common in the era- say, late '70s to mid-'80s).
I was using Max Townsend's ribbon supertweeters to supplement my EV T350 and they worked fine. However, after switching to the Acapella Ion tweeters, which is flat to 50K, I no longer need to use the ribbons. The ion tweeters is easily the best upgrade I have ever experienced in my system. Mind you, I cross them over at 7K from the midrange.
I've been running Airblades for a few months. Check my dedicated thread and listening impressions.
I haven't talked about them here because they're strictly not supertweeters, not really going much beyond 20kHz.
I haven't talked about them here because they're strictly not supertweeters, not really going much beyond 20kHz.
I have been using Murata ES103B’s for the last 20 years on my Duevel Bella Luna omnis. They add air and bizarrely un-sludge the bass. With the omnis they also contribute to a more precise sound stage. They do require very careful set up to be equidistant to the listener with the tweeters to avoid phase related cancellations and peaks. Thankfully their rated efficiency is very similar to the omnis.
I have been using Deulund tin plated copper in oiled cotton hookup wire to connect my supertweeters that cut in at 16Khz. I recently upgraded the wire to a high quality silver plated OCC copper 14 gauge wire. Really nice upgrade with more transparency in the soundstage, better more extended sounding highs, everything just clearer.
DH Labs Silver Sonic
DH Labs Silver Sonic
It's going to take me a while, I think, to quantify the effect they have. But I'm "enjoying" them so far.
It's very easy to hear a difference in overall music "presentation" with and without the Taket-Live supertweeters. The easiest way to do it is to turn the output control on each Live all the way down, or to 5 or above. That doesn't change the frequency range, just the output level.
I think the overall sound does seem to be "brighter" with the Lives, but that isn't the biggest impact. To me, there seems to be significantly more air, with more space around individual instruments and voices, and a more clearly-defined soundstage. Textures/timbres seem to also be more defined: things like a bow on a cello's strings seem to have more character, and breaths are more noticeable.
I don't think that the effect is gimmicky, and I'm definitely enjoying recordings which previously sounded too congested much more.
I'm still not sure about optimal placement. Nothing has been bad, but the spatial effect varies with location.
I used to have a pair of Martin Logan CLS electrostatics which I dearly loved. The Taket Lives bring much of that ethereal, crystaline sound to my present T-M-M towers, while retaining their more complete lower registers.
The Lives have a complementary "speaker" called the WHDpure, which are supposed to add more definition to mids and lows. According to the Dagogo review of the Taket-Lives, the WHDpures remove the slight brightness the Lives add while adding more definition and space to lower frequencies. Yeah, I ordered a pair of those, too...
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And the Lives and WHDpures hook up and input off the main speaker binding posts I assume? Not too crowded?
I also have the Taket Live supertweeters and will concur with @Zuman's following comments "there seems to be significantly more air, with more space around individual instruments and voices, and a more clearly-defined soundstage. Textures/timbres seem to also be more defined". I have mine set at 5. I don't find them to present a "brighter" sound with my Daedalus Argos V2s. I have the Lives positioned on top of the Argos centered so they align with the position of the tweeter.
I previously was using the Taket Batpro 2 supertweeters (no longer available) with the Daedalus and found them to perform similarly. I did try the WHDPure as well with the Daedalus but didn't find or hear any benefit nor detriment using them so I removed them. Once I installed the Lives in my main system I moved the Batpros into my 2nd system with my JM Reynaud Offrande Supreme V2 monitors; similar benefits; similiar positioing. I have not tried the WHD Pure with those speakers; might be a different result with them but I don't have stands to place them up near the cabinet of the Offrande's.
I previously was using the Taket Batpro 2 supertweeters (no longer available) with the Daedalus and found them to perform similarly. I did try the WHDPure as well with the Daedalus but didn't find or hear any benefit nor detriment using them so I removed them. Once I installed the Lives in my main system I moved the Batpros into my 2nd system with my JM Reynaud Offrande Supreme V2 monitors; similar benefits; similiar positioing. I have not tried the WHD Pure with those speakers; might be a different result with them but I don't have stands to place them up near the cabinet of the Offrande's.
Correct. I have two sets of jumpered connections on my main speakers, so that's not a problem in my case. The U.S. importer for Taket, Atelier 13, recommends 26-28 AWG solid core copper in cotton for the Lives, so they take essentially no space at all. My WHDpures haven't arrived yet, but I'm following recommendations and using a mid-level fullrange speaker cable for them - one that I already have on hand.
I'm using AntiCable Level 2 speaker cable with my Lives, and had also used that with the Batpros when it was in my main system. Part of the reason for doing so was at the time I received the Batpro there were delays with obtaining the Jupiter 26-28 gauge wire and I didn't want to prolong the wait for installing the Batpros. I did eventually receive the Jupiter but decided to stay with the AC level 2 as I was pleased with the result. I am using the Jupiter cable now with the Batpro in my 2nd system. To my ears both work well. I did use the AC Level 2 with the WHD Pure.
@jonathanhorwich - When I had both the supertweeter and WHD Pure hooked up to my Daedalus using the AC Level 2 cables for both I had the supertweeter cable terminated with banana plugs and the cable for the WHD Pure terminated with spades as the Daedalus has only one set of speaker binding posts.
@Zuman, I'd be interested in your impressions on the WHD Pure after you have some time with it. May I ask what speakers you have?
@jonathanhorwich - When I had both the supertweeter and WHD Pure hooked up to my Daedalus using the AC Level 2 cables for both I had the supertweeter cable terminated with banana plugs and the cable for the WHD Pure terminated with spades as the Daedalus has only one set of speaker binding posts.
@Zuman, I'd be interested in your impressions on the WHD Pure after you have some time with it. May I ask what speakers you have?
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