The ***Unofficial*** Multichannel DAC Thread

[dallasjustice]

The Lynx Hilo coupled with excellent DSP is a killer combo. I now use Acourate to generate FIR convolution filters for active crossovers for subs and full frequency correction.

IMO, it's impossible to evaluate multi channel DtoA,AtoD units in isolation. For me, DSP yields huge positive results especially with regard to sub integration.

IMO, the Lynx Hilo coupled with great DSP easily outperforms any DAC without DSP I've heard. I've had some pretty nice DACs and the $2,500 Hilo smokes 'em all in my setup. It's no comparison.

Michael.

 

[bmoura]

The Super Audio Center in Boulder is hosting a tour of their studios and offering a Multichannel DSD demo during RMAF. Check the RMAF web site for details and sign-ups.
https://www.audiofest.net/2014/event...nstance_id=356

 

[bonzo75]

Hi, I heard a Datasat Dirac 13.4 system today (had heard it before), but today heard it with Auro 3D upgrade. The speakers were B&Ws, which I normally am not a fan of (the front 2 were 802Ds). The input was just an Oppo 103, and the room was a crap 7m * 3m.

However, the system was brilliant. I played complex music throughout, chorals and duets from Bach cantatas, his violin concertos, opera, Mussorgsky's Pictures, and Scheherazade, which I have heard live and for which I find the 3d very difficult to reproduce, especially the brass instruments. This system played all with ease. The sound was extremely relaxing and there was a concert hall ambience throughout. It doesn't exactly surround you, you feel like you are listening to two channel with more 3d and ambience, and accurate bass.

Extremely impressed. All that I have learned seems to be in danger. Any thoughts for those who have demoed the Auro 3d?

 

[edorr]

Hi, I heard a Datasat Dirac 13.4 system today (had heard it before), but today heard it with Auro 3D upgrade. The speakers were B&Ws, which I normally am not a fan of (the front 2 were 802Ds). The input was just an Oppo 103, and the room was a crap 7m * 3m.

However, the system was brilliant. I played complex music throughout, chorals and duets from Bach cantatas, his violin concertos, opera, Mussorgsky's Pictures, and Scheherazade, which I have heard live and for which I find the 3d very difficult to reproduce, especially the brass instruments. This system played all with ease. The sound was extremely relaxing and there was a concert hall ambience throughout. It doesn't exactly surround you, you feel like you are listening to two channel with more 3d and ambience, and accurate bass.

Extremely impressed. All that I have learned seems to be in danger. Any thoughts for those who have demoed the Auro 3d?

How many discrete channels did the source have? Was this a post processed 5.1 source or stereo?

 

[bonzo75]

How many discrete channels did the source have? Was this a post processed 5.1 source or stereo?

I was playing a 2-channel CD through an Oppo 103 that went into the Datasat

 

[edorr]

I was playing a 2-channel CD through an Oppo 103 that went into the Datasat

Interesting. I have never heard processed (i.e. non discrete) surround sound that I liked. In a native 2 channel recording the "ambiance" cues and the actual musical content are buried in the same 2 channel information. Not sure how a processor can distribute that content over a 16 channel system and realistically create the illusion of being in the original recording space. Thenagain, that is just theory and the only truth is in what you hear. Intriguing. Not that I have any interest in adding channels to my 5.0 system.

i will say that surround sound well done is precisely as you describe. Like a perfectly integrated sub, you don't actually hear any surround channel info (sometimes thinking you forgot to turn them on). But when you actually do turn them off you lose the "ambiance" of the original acoustic space of the recording.

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting. I have never heard processed (i.e. non discrete) surround sound that I liked. In a native 2 channel recording the "ambiance" cues and the actual musical content are buried in the same 2 channel information. Not sure how a processor can distribute that content over a 16 channel system and realistically create the illusion of being in the original recording space. Thenagain, that is just theory and the only truth is in what you hear. Intriguing. Not that I have any interest in adding channels to my 5.0 system.

i will say that surround sound well done is precisely as you describe. Like a perfectly integrated sub, you don't actually hear any surround channel info (sometimes thinking you forgot to turn them on). But when you actually do turn them off you lose the "ambiance" of the original acoustic space of the recording.

When we turned off the Auro it fell flat. In some of this music the subs did not come into play at all. So subs were actually not required. So you have a Datasat Dirac 5.0, what speakers? Is that for music?

Do you think if the speakers here are changed to Panels, can the effect be retained because ambient box speakers get less information?

 

[bonzo75]

Also, what source would you prefer to use in that set up?

 

[edorr]

When we turned off the Auro it fell flat.

Not a good sign. If a native stereo source does not sound good over 2 channels, the system is obviously not up to snuff for stereo, and you are resorting to digital processing magic to compensate for that.

So you have a Datasat Dirac 5.0, what speakers? Is that for music?

I have a hodgepodge of speakers. 2 x Evolution Acoustics for mains (and LFE mapped to it), Linn Klimax 340A for center (trying to sell to move to matching EA center), and in wall B&W's for surround. I strictly play MCH from server - ripped SACD, DVD-A, Blu Ray and DVD. Server also runs Dirac. I listen critically to music in MCH (and 2 channel) only. Playing just native 5.1 sources - not expanding stereo to MCH (my system would not even allow me to do this).

Do you think if the speakers here are changed to Panels, can the effect be retained because ambient box speakers get less information?

No idea.

 

[bonzo75]

Anyway heard a DD Auro with Triad speakers today and it was disappointing, though it did do Orchestral 3d well. Too electronic, uninvolving, bad timbre to instruments. So clearly set up matters a lot. Listening to a set up with Wisdom Audio tomorrow. They are launching the Trinnov altitude in mid-November, will hear it

 

[bmoura]

Lynn Olson at Positive Feedback says the Best Sound at the recent RMAF in Denver was the exaSound e28 playing 5.1 Multichannel DSD. A nice shout-out for Multichannel DSD and exaSound!
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue75/rmaf_2014.htm

 

[edorr]

Lynn Olson at Positive Feedback says the Best Sound at the recent RMAF in Denver was the exaSound e28 playing 5.1 Multichannel DSD. A nice shout-out for Multichannel DSD and exaSound!
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue75/rmaf_2014.htm

The exaSound converter has no preference; at the level of 176.4/24 PCM, or 2x DSD, everything sounded like a mastertape. At the highest level (which for me is DXD), the "recorded" sound disappeared completely, and it sounded like a direct mike-feed.

Fantastic. Total system price less than a single run of the new transparent Opus Magnum cable. My hypothesis. Because of the inherent superiority of MCH, you can achieve better sound quality for a fraction of the price in hardware than on 2 channel (consistent with my personal experience). Regrettable, content (i.e. native 5.1 material) is MIA, so this will always be a small niche, and 2 channel rules.

 

[bmoura]

The exaSound converter has no preference; at the level of 176.4/24 PCM, or 2x DSD, everything sounded like a mastertape. At the highest level (which for me is DXD), the "recorded" sound disappeared completely, and it sounded like a direct mike-feed.

Fantastic. Total system price less than a single run of the new transparent Opus Magnum cable. My hypothesis. Because of the inherent superiority of MCH, you can achieve better sound quality for a fraction of the price in hardware than on 2 channel (consistent with my personal experience). Regrettable, content (i.e. native 5.1 material) is MIA.

Well, there almost 300 native 5.1 DSD downloads on NativeDSD.Com and almost 200 more 5.1 native DSD Downloads on PentaTone's web site. So there is content for those who are looking for it. Enjoy!

 

[edorr]

Well, there almost 300 native 5.1 DSD downloads on NativeDSD.Com and almost 200 more 5.1 native DSD Downloads on PentaTone's web site. So there is content for those who are looking for it. Enjoy!

For classic lovers there is plenty content. My classical listening sessions are 90% in 5.1 surround. However, a meaningful rock and Jazz catalog is non existent, give or take a few nice releases. Of course, if your listening preferences are influenced by available format (and resolution for that matter) this is less of an issue, because you can always find some well recorded MCH in any genre. I personally listen to content first, and there simply is not much in MCH rock and jazz worth my while.

 

[bmoura]

For classic lovers there is plenty content. My classical listening sessions are 90% in 5.1 surround. However, a meaningful rock and Jazz catalog is non existent, give or take a few nice releases. Of course, if your listening preferences are influenced by available format (and resolution for that matter) this is less of an issue, because you can always find some well recorded MCH in any genre. I personally listen to content first, and there simply is not much in MCH rock and jazz worth my while.

The good news if you have a DAC like the e28 is you don't have to choose between 5.1 Multichannel and Stereo. You can listen to both. Not to mention DSD up to DSD256 and high bit rate PCM. Better to have it all - as the 3 analog guys discovered at RMAF.

 

[edorr]

The good news if you have a DAC like the e28 is you don't have to choose between 5.1 Multichannel and Stereo. You can listen to both. Not to mention DSD up to DSD256 and high bit rate PCM. Better to have it all - as the 3 analog guys discovered at RMAF.

I have a stack of 3 x PS Audio Directstream, fed by a Lynx card, on the assumption I am getting (marginally?) better sound than using the exasound DAC. I could save a bundle switching to exasound, and if I am ever desperately in need of cash, this would be the first thing I would do.

 

[microstrip]

In the horrible typical show conditions I would expect that Multichannel should sound better than Stereo - it is a much more predictable format. IMHO the complexity of SOTA stereo systems is such that opinions based on shows are nice entertainment (and I appreciate them as such, also because of the informative characteristics of show reports).

Unfortunately, for my classic music taste, multichannel is almost non-existent. I buy my classic music irrespective of format, and my collection only includes less than 1% multichannel.

 

[edorr]

In the horrible typical show conditions I would expect that Multichannel should sound better than Stereo - it is a much more predictable format. IMHO the complexity of SOTA stereo systems is such that opinions based on shows are nice entertainment (and I appreciate them as such, also because of the informative characteristics of show reports).

I would expect the exact opposite. Keep in mind this MCH setup had not DRS, bass management or anything. Much harder to make that sing in a random hotelroom than 2 channel IMO.

Unfortunately, for my classic music taste, multichannel is almost non-existent. I buy my classic music irrespective of format, and my collection only includes less than 1% multichannel.

If you're a die hard classical buff I can see that. I truly appreciate classical, but if there are 30 recordings of Beethoven's 7th symphony, I'll just buy the best recorded MCH version, rather than the interpretation deemed the best by the cognoscenti, or rather than comparing 10 interpretations and picking my favorite on the merits of "interpretation". Only time this approach failed me is with a Beethoven sonata I bought on MCH I liked far less artistically than what I knew on 2 channel.

 

[microstrip]

I would expect the exact opposite. Keep in mind this MCH setup had not DRS, bass management or anything. Much harder to make that sing in a random hotelroom than 2 channel IMO.

We should disagree on that. IMHO good multichannel recordings should have all the information encoded in the discrete channels - even without DRS or bass management, if used properly should be a superior format. You just should not screw it up. A stereo system needs a lot of tuning and optimization to recreate all that is lost during the recording.

BTW Olson refers to the quality of the recordings being used The source material was superlative, ranging from 1x, 2x, and 4x DSD, five-channel surround DSD, and 1x and 2x DXD (a professional 352.8/32 format used for editing DSD masters without generation loss).

If you're a die hard classical buff I can see that. I truly appreciate classical, but if there are 30 recordings of Beethoven's 7th symphony, I'll just buy the best recorded MCH version, rather than the interpretation deemed the best by the cognoscenti, or rather than comparing 10 interpretations and picking my favorite on the merits of "interpretation". Only time this approach failed me is with a Beethoven sonata I bought on MCH I liked far less artistically than what I knew on 2 channel.

You are correct, if I could live on a diet of Beethoven symphonies live would be much easier ... But yesterday I was listening to Shostakovitch Symphony no 14, CO, Haitink, Fischer-Dieskau and Varady.

 

[edorr]

We should disagree on that. IMHO good multichannel recordings should have all the information encoded in the discrete channels - even without DRS or bass management, if used properly should be a superior format. You just should not screw it up. A stereo system needs a lot of tuning and optimization to recreate all that is lost during the recording.

BTW Olson refers to the quality of the recordings being used The source material was superlative, ranging from 1x, 2x, and 4x DSD, five-channel surround DSD, and 1x and 2x DXD (a professional 352.8/32 format used for editing DSD masters without generation loss).



You are correct, if I could live on a diet of Beethoven symphonies live would be much easier ... But yesterday I was listening to Shostakovitch Symphony no 14, CO, Haitink, Fischer-Dieskau and Varady.

My classical diet is chamber music (admittedly with plenty helpings of Beethoven string quartets) first, solo piano music second and orchestral music third. I listen to may be 5-10 different composers, including Bach, Beethoven, Vivaldi, Ravel, Shostakovitch, Gershwin, Stravinski, Rodrigo, Arvo Part etc. So while not remotely the depth of a true classical afficionado, I'm not quite limited to Beethoven's 5th and Mondschein Sonata. Fortunately there is plenty of good MCH in my limited listening range. Jazz and Rock and World Music not so much.