Visit to DDK

[ddk]

I thought the one we had take out from wasn't bad

I'm better!

david

 

[microstrip]

I heard a recent LP12 which killed the AR CD 7 on an Apogee Diva system with Cello amps biamped. Had never heard the Cellos before.
(...)

If the ARC CD7 was not one of my favorite CD players I would remain silent. But I have owned it for a long time, and when correctly matched it was an incredible CD player. I had it with the ARC REF5 preamplifier and I could easily say that this CD player could make real music. A good friend of mine still owns my old CD7 in an all ARC system and a few days ago we were listening to Deutsche Motette, Op.62 (Strauss, Richard), a fantastic vocal recording, scored in 20 real parts for chorus and four soloists, extremely difficult to reproduce and it sounded really divine.

The CD7 is one of the many CD players that is in equal rank as excellent vinyl playing systems. All IMHO, YMMV.

 

[bonzo75]

I actually owned the AR Dac 8, and at that time compared CAD, VAD, Meitner, Weiss, Resolution Canata to the Dac 8 and did not bother upgrading (or side-moving). At that time my dream upgrade was AR CD9. I had a full AR system with my Summits then. I then heard the Lampi 5 and sold the Dac 8 immediately. When I heard the CD 7 with the Divas it made the system sound boring. I thought it was a flight wasted. When I put the LP12 on I realized why I like Apogees so much. No exaggeration. The pre was an AR LS 22.

If the ARC CD7 was not one of my favorite CD players I would remain silent. But I have owned it for a long time, and when correctly matched it was an incredible CD player. I had it with the ARC REF5 preamplifier and I could easily say that this CD player could make real music. A good friend of mine still owns my old CD7 in an all ARC system and a few days ago we were listening to Deutsche Motette, Op.62 (Strauss, Richard), a fantastic vocal recording, scored in 20 real parts for chorus and four soloists, extremely difficult to reproduce and it sounded really divine.

The CD7 is one of the many CD players that is in equal rank as excellent vinyl playing systems. All IMHO, YMMV.

 

[microstrip]

I actually owned the AR Dac 8, and at that time compared CAD, VAD, Meitner, Weiss, Resolution Canata to the Dac 8 and did not bother upgrading (or side-moving). At that time my dream upgrade was AR CD9. I had a full AR system with my Summits then. I then heard the Lampi 5 and sold the Dac 8 immediately. When I heard the CD 7 with the Divas it made the system sound boring. I thought it was a flight wasted. When I put the LP12 on I realized why I like Apogees so much. No exaggeration. The pre was an AR LS 22.

You were poorly informed - the DAC8 was not an interesting product at all considering my preferences - IMHO the good digital products of ARC were the those who had tubes. I also had the solid state DAC8 at home for a few days, attracted by the promise of USB computer connection and HiREZ. No way ... Compared to either the CD7 or CD8 for me it would be a downgrade, was as you noticed. And yes, the tubed CD9 was a much better product, including the HiRez features, although just for CD playback I still preferred the CD8.

IMHO you managed to match two of the less interesting ARC products - I also owned the LS22 for a few months, as it had one great review in Hifi News. Unfortunately much less musical than the LS5 mk3, that it was supposed to replace. Retrospectively they represent the very detailed, extremely neutral, but for me somewhat sterile type of sound of a few pieces of ARC. Fortunately the REF1 and following preamplifiers reestablished the great ARC sound.

 

[bonzo75]

You were poorly informed - the DAC8 was not an interesting product at all considering my preferences - IMHO the good digital products of ARC were the those who had tubes. I also had the solid state DAC8 at home for a few days, attracted by the promise of USB computer connection and HiREZ. No way ... Compared to either the CD7 or CD8 for me it would be a downgrade, was as you noticed. And yes, the tubed CD9 was a much better product, including the HiRez features, although just for CD playback I still preferred the CD8.

IMHO you managed to match two of the less interesting ARC products - I also owned the LS22 for a few months, as it had one great review in Hifi News. Unfortunately much less musical than the LS5 mk3, that it was supposed to replace. Retrospectively they represent the very detailed, extremely neutral, but for me somewhat sterile type of sound of a few pieces of ARC. Fortunately the REF1 and following preamplifiers reestablished the great ARC sound.

Micro I am well aware of LS27, 29, AR Ref 3 (which I owned), 5SE, and Ref 10 (which I compared to Koda K10). As I said, back then I liked the AR CD 9, much more than Dac 8. I also owned the Ref 110 and have heard many AR amps. So there is no "poor information". The only information I do not have on AR is what Harlequin's recommended tube rolls do to the sound

That said, the Diva system was what it was - an AR CD 7 going into an LS 22, and the LP12 beat it with a night and day difference. No one matched those - that is what the system was, and in that system, the LP12 was clearly superior. If you added a Ref 40 to the AR CD 7, you would have added a Ref 40 to the LP12 as well.

 

[JackD201]

Waiting for you Jack and in absence of decent Thai restaurants here I've become quite a proficient cook myself, David's Dine, Wine & Music Stop !

david

Yeah baby!

 

[microstrip]

Micro I am well aware of LS27, 29, AR Ref 3 (which I owned), 5SE, and Ref 10 (which I compared to Koda K10). As I said, back then I liked the AR CD 9, much more than Dac 8. I also owned the Ref 110 and have heard many AR amps. So there is no "poor information". The only information I do not have on AR is what Harlequin's recommended tube rolls do to the sound

That said, the Diva system was what it was - an AR CD 7 going into an LS 22, and the LP12 beat it with a night and day difference. No one matched those - that is what the system was, and in that system, the LP12 was clearly superior. If you added a Ref 40 to the AR CD 7, you would have added a Ref 40 to the LP12 as well.

Well, a REF40 (that is now playing in my system) with a CD7 sounds really good - one thing I noticed when I moved from the REF5 to REF40 was that digital made an enormous jump, much more than vinyl. But yes, the REF2 phono also made vinyl jump! Anyway - beat, kill - IMHO they show mainly a poor matching unless you are addressing a flawed component.

 

[DaveyF]

Well, a REF40 (that is now playing in my system) with a CD7 sounds really good - one thing I noticed when I moved from the REF5 to REF40 was that digital made an enormous jump, much more than vinyl. But yes, the REF2 phono also made vinyl jump! Anyway - beat, kill - IMHO they show mainly a poor matching unless you are addressing a flawed component.

Micro, I think you might also want to listen to a top line current LP12. Compared to any digital it really is in a different league, IMHO. As Kedar said above, it would have killed the digital that day in the set up he heard....that description would be the word I would use also; there is really no comparison between what the LP12 ( properly set up and of later vintage and Klimax level) can do and an ARC CD7. Tape is far closer to what this set up sounds like than digital...again IMHO.

 

[microstrip]

Micro, I think you might also want to listen to a top line current LP12. Compared to any digital it really is in a different league, IMHO. As Kedar said above, it would have killed the digital that day in the set up he heard....that description would be the word I would use also; there is really no comparison between what the LP12 ( properly set up and of later vintage and Klimax level) can do and an ARC CD7. Tape is far closer to what this set up sounds like than digital...again IMHO.

DaveyF,

I have listened to the top vinyl, mine is also not too bad (Forsell AirForce One with air bearing flywheel), I own tape (Studer A80) and my current digital . Each is different and I do not consider that any of them kills or can not be compared with others - e.g. - a direct cut Sheffield LP in some aspects surpasses tape.

And yes, after a long absence of Linn, I was listening to a "top line current LP12" two weeks ago. Not my cup of tea, sorry.

 

[DaveyF]

DaveyF,

I have listened to the top vinyl, mine is also not too bad (Forsell AirForce One with air bearing flywheel), I own tape (Studer A80) and my current digital . Each is different and I do not consider that any of them kills or can not be compared with others - e.g. - a direct cut Sheffield LP in some aspects surpasses tape.

And yes, after a long absence of Linn, I was listening to a "top line current LP12" two weeks ago. Not my cup of tea, sorry.

I'm very impressed, micro. You do seem to listen to immense amounts of gear! BTW, I do like your Forsell, do you not prefer it to your digital...by a long shot?
Anyway, if you have listened to a current LP12 ..Klimax/Radikal D and it was not your cuppa, it's all good. Ymmv.

 

[beaur]

You should take Jack to the Sushi Burrito place!

Waiting for you Jack and in absence of decent Thai restaurants here I've become quite a proficient cook myself, David's Dine, Wine & Music Stop !

david

 

[ddk]

You should take Jack to the Sushi Burrito place!

LOL!

david

 

[Al M.]

Micro, I think you might also want to listen to a top line current LP12. Compared to any digital it really is in a different league, IMHO. As Kedar said above, it would have killed the digital that day in the set up he heard....that description would be the word I would use also; there is really no comparison between what the LP12 ( properly set up and of later vintage and Klimax level) can do and an ARC CD7. Tape is far closer to what this set up sounds like than digital...again IMHO.

I haven't heard the newer iterations of the LP 12, but I have heard other top vinyl. While it is great and impressive and I love to listen to it, in no way do I think it is in a completely different league than great digital and 'kills' it. I just don't.

 

[cjfrbw]

I haven't heard the newer iterations of the LP 12, but I have heard other top vinyl. While it is great and impressive and I love to listen to it, in no way do I think it is in a completely different league than great digital and 'kills' it. I just don't.

I don't either any more, but I still luv vinyl bestest (outside of R to R demos).

 

[DaveyF]

I haven't heard the newer iterations of the LP 12, but I have heard other top vinyl. While it is great and impressive and I love to listen to it, in no way do I think it is in a completely different league than great digital and 'kills' it. I just don't.

Here's the thing of it Al. I can always recognize digital...even great digital whenever I hear it. There is something that always tells me I am listening to something that has a certain 'digititis' if you will. With great vinyl or tape, I never have that feeling or can place the source so easily. Perhaps in a different league is too strong a descriptor, but the easily (to me) audible difference is a major factor...to me. Others may not be so sensitive to this.

 

[Al M.]

Here's the thing of it Al. I can always recognize digital...even great digital whenever I hear it. There is something that always tells me I am listening to something that has a certain 'digititis' if you will. With great vinyl or tape, I never have that feeling or can place the source so easily. Perhaps in a different league is too strong a descriptor, but the easily (to me) audible difference is a major factor...to me. Others may not be so sensitive to this.

Then I suggest you read this review by Peter A., who only listens to analog at home on his great SME turntable, of the dCS Rossini:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...win-s-High-End&p=379841&viewfull=1#post379841

 

[bonzo75]

Then I suggest you read this review by Peter A., who only listens to analog at home on his great SME turntable, of the dCS Rossini:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...win-s-High-End&p=379841&viewfull=1#post379841

It says it fared better than the Berkeley, no analog compare?

 

[Al M.]

It says it fared better than the Berkeley, no analog compare?

Oh, come on Ked, have you actually read the review carefully?

Anyway, I suggest we not derail this thread about David's system with another analog/digital debate...

 

[microstrip]

Here's the thing of it Al. I can always recognize digital...even great digital whenever I hear it. There is something that always tells me I am listening to something that has a certain 'digititis' if you will. With great vinyl or tape, I never have that feeling or can place the source so easily. Perhaps in a different league is too strong a descriptor, but the easily (to me) audible difference is a major factor...to me. Others may not be so sensitive to this.

Surely, when listening to digital you miss the "analogitis" ... People are buying a lot of digital vinyl and loving it. This way they get the best of both!

DDK assembled and perfected a SOTA system to play analog in the best conditions, it is the subject of this thread. But in no way it can be used as an anti-digital weapon.

IMHO both have reached a status where we are now mainly debating preferences in the high-end sense.

 

[beaur]

I paid a short visit to David's recently. While my bias has already been formed for the type of sound David likes I was still very impressed by what I heard. Upon my entry into his listening room, I was greeted by the tone and scale that I love to hear. Can't remember the music but as I walked to the listening chair, I was struck by the fact that the sound field remained fairly constant no matter where I was in the room. I threw my bags down and then noticed that I was listening to a CD. Given that, and what I heard for the rest of the night I always wonder why people make digital vs. analog a contest. David's digital system is not what most people would consider SOTA, but I was thoroughly enjoying it.

FWIW, my favorite was the Neumann on the AS TT. Had that tone and presence that I am looking for, but frankly I would be happy with any of the sources he has at his disposal including that "old fashioned" CD player!

As has been said before, David is a great host, with an enviable audio system with a bonus of a great view!