Zero Distortion: Tango Time

KeithR

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Keith you might as well ask Tang what conclusions has he come to on what to purchase next, and then after that, and then after that. Audiophiles are like dogs. They chase cars. They don't know what to do once they catch up with it.

I will confirm my purchase decisions after I make my pilgrimage to Ron's completed system, after Microstrip buys his final final speaker with his final final set of electronics, and after Marc stops asking if he should upgrade his absolutely final speakers

Thanks for avoiding a serious question.

I'm no pup and have a method for my system.
 

bonzo75

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Thanks for avoiding a serious question.

I'm no pup and have a method for my system.

It requires a long answer that that I cannot type from a mobile. Will do when I get to my laptop.

If you are not a pup, don't be like a Brit. They wanted brexit, but once they got it, do not know how to implement it. And now seriously doubt they made the right choice
 
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Tango

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Regarding the phono, I wanted to do the swap, but Tang did not let me as he wants me to revisit so had to leave something on the table.

Holy Macaroni n cheese!! :eek:

I will pass this honour to Christian. His phonos are on equal ground.

Tang o_O
 

Tango

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Tang, do you have a preference for one of your phonos over the other? If so, which one and why?

I like the EMT better. I think it is the lesser color of the two and I like the four phono inputs with various adjustable features. I had both on CMS rack before playing with Techdas and 927. Transparency and resolution of the two are about the same. I am a transparency clarity freak. They are very dynamic with magical pop and reach. The Ayon is a little mid accentuated and I feel the high is little less extended than the EMT. EMT has a little less midbass than Ayon. I think this is part of reasons why both Kedar and I hear the GFS sounds better on 927 with Ayon.The GFS has excellent details and high extension but slim body narrower tonal width with presentation moves toward the back. The presentation of Ayon is a bit forward making the stage feels a bit fuller than the EMT. So these fill up the holes for GFS. The EMT phono doesnt seem to add or substract much. I think it is very neutral and I like to keep everything neutral to hear more carts and records as close to themself as possible than hearing flavors added by my equipments. The EMT is just more truthful imo.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
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bonzo75

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I was betting that after seeing Peter's question, Tang would stay up to answer this. It is like 2 or 3 am there now. Forum addiction!
 

Tango

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I was betting that after seeing Peter's question, Tang would stay up to answer this. It is like 2 or 3 am there now. Forum addiction!

I have been having a habit of falling asleep with my boy at 8pm and wake up at 12 and fall asleep again at 3am. Nothing good is on cable.

Tang
 

bonzo75

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honest question, actually.

what's the whole point of the exercise at Tang's and others if it isn't. hearing many analog combinations has to have some consequence for Ked's future system, no?

Keith, visiting the General has taught me (and Bill) to put records first, as far as the whole system goes (of course we are not denying matching speakers to the room have an equal importance). But my fund priorities have been turned upside down, as originals can cost quite a lot. Apart from being vastly superior to Classic records or Speakers corner, I realized that there is a large part of the music catalog I was interested in that belongs outside the main reissue brands, also in many cases outside the Decca and EMI (though they have many excellent choices). I have therefore got much more focused as far as record collection goes. And as far as purchases, a lot of money this year has gone into records, and more will go into records first. My insight into pressings has gone up exponentially though is still in infancy, and this is where money will go in for a long time.

Gear: Multiple TT compares are one of the best things one can do - whether at the price point of David or Tang, or now Gian whom I will soon visit, or A10 audio (lower price point at Feickert Firebird, Pluto, Reed), Anamighty, as well as the TT shootout in Italy. It teaches one so much what to look for. I have been interacting with Tang on PMs and have known his thoughts since he had only the Kronos and the Techdas, then saw how they changed with the EMT, and then with the AS. After visiting him, was able to calibrate. I have not done a compare of The Vyger Atlantis yet but will do soon. I am quite willing to forege the top TTs for a 124 and put the money into recordings.

Apart from that, it has taught me my price value curve. I still have the Schopper TD 124, STST Motus, Brinkmann Balance, price progression with Torqeo and a DD like Kodo to evaluate. Surely there is further value at Vyger, AS, NVS, but even after appreciating what they do better, I feel quite satiated at lower points. More importantly, I have come to appreciate the wastefulness of many over engineered high priced TTs, which were once a dream product for me, and I can see a lot of posts pop up of A vs B of people who have heard neither, but understand why they are attracted, and can see how a trip similar to mine will help them out.

With phonos, I have not nailed it down but do experience a Ying and Yang with SS and Valves. I like the Allnic, can easily live without the nightmarish 3 boxes of the Eclipse which I think is a great phono, but there are easier options like Allnic, and I have recently got interested in the Phasemation (great value SS, and their top model is a DHT I want to hear). Thomas Mayer is sonically great but very inflexible for me...it is great for someone who knows his final cart. I also want to evaluate old low priced classics like Klyne. And yes for me two arms and a flexible phono is a must. I also revisit stuff. For example, the General has reservations regarding a couple of my choices, and since the main difference in our auditions is the quality of recordings (apart from the system contexts which would differ where he and I heard it), I will be revisiting some of my choices with his type of records. We do not need to agree but if someone challenges, it is good to go out and reverify and save the pain of realizing it later.

Carts - Stradivarius! + Something else (Anamighty's low priced cart is fantastic if you have a SS current phono but not otherwise). But recently doing 2 Master Sig Strad compares in the space of two months, apart from having heard it in two other systems, helped, as did two compares of Opus vs Atlas SL. And a Diamond cantilevered Koetsus vs Decca. Listening to different analog systems also tells you how easily you can hear when someone does not have drive and energy, which means it is either a mismatch in his gain or like Tang showed, in the VTA/SRA

Arms. Both FR 64s, SME 3012r, and in the case of Brinkmann the 10.5 can keep someone happy. Upgrading arms is the last place I will put my budget, though I will make sure I match well. I need to explore LTs more.

Overall system: Stays at SET+Horns as first choice, with stats and modded Tannoys as a compromise back up. If I can't get the room size and afford a full range big horn, then will choose between stats and modded tannoys as a compromise. Sonically prefer stats, but as much as I like being an intense audiophile on some days, I don't like being one daily, and might resist stats due to the sweet spot constraint, and go modded tannoys, much easier on the set up. Sure there are some quality cones like Zellaton Stage, YG Hailey, etc, but too expensive. Some of these expensive systems as well as lower priced ones like Anamighty taught me how important it is to avoid the system signature to allow the performances from records to flow through. There are many amps which prevent this, though they sound great with a digital set up. My amp choices are not clear though I have a fair short list. If I go stats or modded tannoys, I will strongly explore Berning Quads as a final amp. The Audio Machina is also a great small speaker that works fantastic with Berning to let performance from records flow through. I think this is more important than creating a scale with the fake bass and stage of many big cones. Tang's system, even if it does not gel well with the room (he had to remove subs and all) prove to me just how superior horns are, and how easy it is to implement them once you have the space. Gian's Italian tour was a brilliant reinforcement of how small speakers should be relative to the room.

Finally, and most importantly, I long ago accepted I have a dual hobby. My own system goals are music, but at the same time I want to scratch gear itch + forum addiction so I try to keep those separate. These sort of gear compares let me do the fast track on the gear hobby.

Pilgrimages lead to surprises - I was expecting Mike's to be a sterile state system, I argued with Bill a lot before visiting the General that the General's records could not possibly make that much of a difference given what Salvatore and Fremer and TAS have on their list - many other surprises that challenged preconceived notions. Marty's DRC is another example. Meeting people philosophically opposed helps keep my own biases from developing, because someone is always knocking it off before it develops

You can see why I was avoiding writing. There is a lot there I am sure I forgot to write or elaborate properly or said something to upset some unintentionally. It is not easy to cover all details. This is expected to be a high level glance at approaches and brands that have caught my attention.
 

tima

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Keith, visiting the General has taught me (and Bill) to put records first, as far as the whole system goes (of course we are not denying matching speakers to the room have an equal importance). But my fund priorities have been turned upside down, as originals can cost quite a lot. Apart from being vastly superior to Classic records or Speakers corner, I realized that there is a large part of the music catalog I was interested in that belongs outside the main reissue brands, also in many cases outside the Decca and EMI (though they have many excellent choices). I have therefore got much more focused as far as record collection goes. And as far as purchases, a lot of money this year has gone into records, and more will go into records first. My insight into pressings has gone up exponentially though is still in infancy, and this is where money will go in for a long time.
.

Would you name some of the LPs thay have your interest? tia
 

bonzo75

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Would you name some of the LPs thay have your interest? tia

Time this is a very difficult question. Some are in the tang report. Unlike SME 3012r LP prices can reach a few thousand if published on WBF. You will have to sell your Sasha and Monaco, no jokes, to get some good LPs. The question then is whether you use those funds to focus on 10, 100, or a thousand LPs. You can follow auctions on vinyl_house_uk. I have never been able to win one there yet. It is not just knowing the LP, but the edition, matrix, and the credibility of the source. If you buy an ed1 and I buy an ed1, the two can sound very different.
 

spiritofmusic

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And I thought spending £250 each on Classic Records Quiex versions of Led Zep lps was bad enough LOL.
 

the sound of Tao

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Thanks Ked, really great stuff, you seem to be having fun. Also really great to see how your knowledge base, your understanding of your approach and the increasing clarity in your goals develops... and, for me probably most enjoyable of all your honest writing style, you have command and you write with a fine degree of transparency and there is a joyful lack of artifice. Cool to see you moving forwards to culmination whatever that might be... perhaps sometime soon you’ll even give in and completely settle in with your power lifting girlfriend, put on a well cut bit of appropriate (or inappropriate) vinyl and kick back in the presence of your very own fab great horns and fire it up with the glow of a lovely hot SET of tubes, all at home and so enjoy the continued journey in new ways as well. Plus ofcourse plenty of opportunities to accompany good music with great food, good wine, even great coffee and proper moments of joy and laughter.

Also am super impressed with Tang’s own writings on his sound and also very much as a provider of constant comic gold. Much enjoyed all round.
 
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awsmone

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Time this is a very difficult question. Some are in the tang report. Unlike SME 3012r LP prices can reach a few thousand if published on WBF. You will have to sell your Sasha and Monaco, no jokes, to get some good LPs. The question then is whether you use those funds to focus on 10, 100, or a thousand LPs. You can follow auctions on vinyl_house_uk. I have never been able to win one there yet. It is not just knowing the LP, but the edition, matrix, and the credibility of the source. If you buy an ed1 and I buy an ed1, the two can sound very different.

Ked

whats the story with the avatar
You listen to classical and have a cheesy rock photo of a drummer with a moustache lol
 

microstrip

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(...) Gear: Multiple TT compares are one of the best things one can do - whether at the price point of David or Tang, or now Gian whom I will soon visit, or A10 audio (lower price point at Feickert Firebird, Pluto, Reed), Anamighty, as well as the TT shootout in Italy. (...)

Just one question - why didn't you compare the turntables sound with tape? IMHO it is the reference to use, considering you dislike top solid state digital.
 

asiufy

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Ked

whats the story with the avatar
You listen to classical and have a cheesy rock photo of a drummer with a moustache lol

The "cheesy... drummer with a moustache" is none other than John "Bonzo" Bonham, he of Led Zeppelin fame :)
 

awsmone

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Thanks for enlightening me..I know nothing about rock music

But what’s that got to do with Ked?

He wrote a enormous review with “no” rock music played !

He would be better with. Avatar of Rubinstein etc.....
 

asiufy

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His handle on the forum is bonzo75. John Bonham was known as "Bonzo". We'll have to wait for Kedar himself to explain why he picked that nickname, seeing as how he mostly listens to classical music :)
 
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Ron Resnick

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Holy Macaroni n cheese!! :eek:

I will pass this honour to Christian. His phonos are on equal ground.

Tang o_O

Tang, now that Kedar knows your system he will be more efficient in his set-up requests and comparisons. For this second visit he probably will not need to stay with you for more than seven to ten days.
 

spiritofmusic

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Alex, Zep in their prime, roughly from LZ I to In Through The Out Door, were the equivalent of classical pomp, Wagner, Beethoven, Mahler would have been pushing to share a pot of tea w them after gigs.

Maybe not so surprising Ked identifies w them.

Way superior to my user name linked to Rush.
 

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