My Metric Halo LIO-8 is pretty much my main DAC and it is an excellent performer. I am getting the itch to add something else in the mix for a different flavor or presentation. There is nothing I dislike about the LIO-8. I just wonder what else is out there and realize more DACs are on the horizon. Thoughts? Has anyone moved from or towards the Metric Halo DACs? Thanks!
Any Metric Halo LIO-8 users here ? .....
- Thread starter joeinid
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Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
I used a Model 305 for about a year when I was doing location recording and then tried it in the mastering room. It's a great piece and MH does have excellent sonics. It doesn't do anything wrong.
I moved on to a DAD AX24 and then to a Playback Designs MPS-5 and couldn't be happier.
I moved on to a DAD AX24 and then to a Playback Designs MPS-5 and couldn't be happier.
I use an ULN2, tonight an 8, but not heard it yet. But with the 2 I have the same impression as Bruce, it does not do anything wrong.
I must add, that I like both my Wadia S7i as modded by Steve GNSC, and lately also the BOW ZZ8 mkIII, equal to the new ZZ9.
You can try a Wadia as well!
I replaced a Berkeley Alpha DAC a couple of years ago with a LIO-8 and continue to enjoy it. A friend of mine also has a LIO-8 (jtwrace) and after much experimentation found we were able to extract a bit more performance through a simple, non-regulated LPSU versus the stock SMPS. A regulated LPSU actually hurt performance. The last A/B we did was against a Buffalo II DAC which the LIO-8 comfortably beat.
Like you, I have found myself getting the itch to see if the LIO-8 can be bettered enough to be worthy of the investment. At the very high end I have heard very favorable comments about the Bricasti and Weiss Medea Plus. Also the new M2Tech Vaughn is worth investigating. At the lower end the new NAD M51 seems to be a strong performer, certainly at its price point.
A guy named Jon Marsh is doing a direct comparison of the M51 vs LIO-8 vs BADA2 with and without the Alpha USB. You can google the thread which is on the HT forum. That should be interesting. Jon used to be a recording engineer.
Like you, I have found myself getting the itch to see if the LIO-8 can be bettered enough to be worthy of the investment. At the very high end I have heard very favorable comments about the Bricasti and Weiss Medea Plus. Also the new M2Tech Vaughn is worth investigating. At the lower end the new NAD M51 seems to be a strong performer, certainly at its price point.
A guy named Jon Marsh is doing a direct comparison of the M51 vs LIO-8 vs BADA2 with and without the Alpha USB. You can google the thread which is on the HT forum. That should be interesting. Jon used to be a recording engineer.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
The Model 305 I had definitely bettered the Bricasti. I don't feel the Bricasti is worth it no matter what filter you use. There are definitely better converters out there, even cheaper.
Ha, don't tell that to the guys at Stereophile. They decided to crown it the new King.
Interesting comment. Like so many other aspects of high end audio, there are so many DAC companies and so little consensus on which one is "best". I will have to try the PD, but my preference is a combined DAC/PRE. The new Mola Mola PRE/DAC could be interesting if Bruno can bring to the DAC the kind of performance his new NCORE amps have brought to the amplifier segment.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
We have the best DSD A-D out there. It's the Grimm AD1, specialty of Eelco and Bruno.
Bruce:
HiJack:
Can you point me in the direction of some powered monitors under a grand? There are so many out there to choose from..
Genelec, Focal, Yamaha, Dynaudio..
A friend strongly recommended KRK.
HiJack:
Can you point me in the direction of some powered monitors under a grand? There are so many out there to choose from..
Genelec, Focal, Yamaha, Dynaudio..
A friend strongly recommended KRK.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Take a look here:
http://www.sweetwater.com/c405--Active_Monitors/low2high/all
I'd certainly recommend the following:
Focal CMS 50
Genelec 8020B
M-Audio BX8 D2
Mackie 624
Event 20/20
I really haven't heard any good things about KRK. A mixer guy down the street from me had the KRK Rokit and hated them.
I have the Focal Twin/Solo/Sub6 in a 5.1 config and couldn't be happier. Guess I'm partial to Focal. Had Adams and didn't like them either.
Bruce, have you heard the new Berkeley Alpha DAC 2 with the Alpha USB? If so, how would you rate its performance versus the PD? How about the Weiss DAC202 or the Weiss Medea Plus? Mytek DSD 192? Invicta? I am trying to compile a list of the top DAC's to audition as an upgrade from my LIO-8 and there are so many contenders.
You seem to be very high on the PD. In what areas does it differentiate itself versus the rest of the field you have auditioned?
Thanks.
Thanks Bruce!
Great help. As you can see in the link, there are too many to choose from in this
product category.
Thanks for narrowing it down.
I have not heard KRKs either. I do know that Steve Hoffman used them to master the CSN Gold Disc from last year.
I did hear PSI Audio and I was very very impressed. However they are above my price point for this
application. I believe they start at 2 grand.
I do plan one day to base a very high end two channel system on actives...ATC or PMC. There is a sound and immediacy that I have not yet heard traditional amp/passive speaker setups match. I will probably use a tube pre.
Thanks again!
Great help. As you can see in the link, there are too many to choose from in this
product category.
Thanks for narrowing it down.
I have not heard KRKs either. I do know that Steve Hoffman used them to master the CSN Gold Disc from last year.
I did hear PSI Audio and I was very very impressed. However they are above my price point for this
application. I believe they start at 2 grand.
I do plan one day to base a very high end two channel system on actives...ATC or PMC. There is a sound and immediacy that I have not yet heard traditional amp/passive speaker setups match. I will probably use a tube pre.
Thanks again!
Just to further this discussion, I did some research over the weekend and it would seem there are several DAC/PRE contenders in the $1500-2500 price class worthy of consideration.
First, the Mytek 192 DSD black master stereo that Bruce mentioned at around $1500. Another is the new Lynx Hilo which is a 2ADC/6DAC with PRE which just started shipping at $2500. There is a DAC loopback test that someone keeps up to date and the Hilo rates the highest on that test. I think we all realize there is more to consider obviously, but it is seems like a good sign anyway.
Then there is the Anedio D2 which has gotten rave reviews at $1500 - it is currently out of stock. It uses the same Sabre chip as the Medea + and M2Tech Vaughn (both of which are considerably more money of course). Also, we have the NAD M51 which takes a different approach by converting PCM to PWM. It is also priced at around $2000 IIRC and has gotten excellent reviews. And there is the Lampizator 4 Plus which many also have raved about, especially vinylphiles. And I am sure there are others....
I know from another post that Bruce was aware of the Hilo. Looking forward to his comments.
First, the Mytek 192 DSD black master stereo that Bruce mentioned at around $1500. Another is the new Lynx Hilo which is a 2ADC/6DAC with PRE which just started shipping at $2500. There is a DAC loopback test that someone keeps up to date and the Hilo rates the highest on that test. I think we all realize there is more to consider obviously, but it is seems like a good sign anyway.
Then there is the Anedio D2 which has gotten rave reviews at $1500 - it is currently out of stock. It uses the same Sabre chip as the Medea + and M2Tech Vaughn (both of which are considerably more money of course). Also, we have the NAD M51 which takes a different approach by converting PCM to PWM. It is also priced at around $2000 IIRC and has gotten excellent reviews. And there is the Lampizator 4 Plus which many also have raved about, especially vinylphiles. And I am sure there are others....
I know from another post that Bruce was aware of the Hilo. Looking forward to his comments.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
I had the BADA in here for a couple of months. I had high hopes for it since I really liked the PM2. My bubble was burst when I heard it. Didn't sound nothing like the PM2 and was not to my liking. I felt it over emphasized the bass and muddied up the lower mids. It wasn't unlistenable, but compared to the PD, it just didn't cut it. The Mytek, at $1500, clearly bested this unit in every samplerate.
The same for the Bricasti. No matter what filter I chose, it just sounded like there was a glaze or smearing over the mids and highs.
The only Weiss I've tried in my system is the DAC 1 Mk2. I've heard the DAC202 and Medea in other systems and can not make a conscience judgement call. I really liked the DAC 1 Mk2 though. I felt it's one of the better PCM converters out there.
The Lynx Hilo is an interesting piece. I have not heard it. We do have the Lynx Aurora converters in here and if it's any better, it would clearly be the one to beat at <$5k.
Bruce, as always, thanks for sharing your perspectives. Just a few questions. So, it was the BADA2 you heard? Was it with the Alpha USB?
I take it from your posts that you rate the Mytek and Aurora above the ULN-8/LIO-8 on a DAC basis. Can you comment on what aspects of performance have you making this conclusion?
Lastly, have you ever heard the Apogee Symphony?
Thanks.
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Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
At first it was the first edition BADA and then after the Alpha USB came out, I had it in here again for about 2 weeks, hoping it would be better.
The ULN-8/Model 305 that I had was equal to or better than the Aurora. It was a toss up. Unfortunately it doesn't do DSD which is why we got the Mytek.
No, haven't heard the Apogee Symphony in my system.
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Hi Joe,
I've been using a ULN-8 for a few years now. (Was actually beta testing it for a few before it was released to the public.)
A bunch of colleagues periodically do a blind test where everyone receives sets of files created with about a dozen converters. No one knows which converter created which set until long after listening. So far, I haven't heard anything I think is as transparent as the '8.
There are a lot of converters nowadays that sound very good. That is exactly what I find wrong with them. Some of the last few "comers" brought to my studio for comparison were shamed by the '8, in spite of rave reviews from some quarters. I think that is attributable to some folks liking a certain sound. For folks seeking a "sound", one of those will likely satisfy, depending on the sort of sound they seek.
What I love about the '8 is the enormous amount of trouble I've had pinning down its "sound". So far, when used at a 4x rate (i.e., 176.4k or 192k), I haven't been able to distinguish its output from my microphone feed. That is something I've never experienced before with any other device, analog or digital, regardless of price.
Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
I've been using a ULN-8 for a few years now. (Was actually beta testing it for a few before it was released to the public.)
A bunch of colleagues periodically do a blind test where everyone receives sets of files created with about a dozen converters. No one knows which converter created which set until long after listening. So far, I haven't heard anything I think is as transparent as the '8.
There are a lot of converters nowadays that sound very good. That is exactly what I find wrong with them. Some of the last few "comers" brought to my studio for comparison were shamed by the '8, in spite of rave reviews from some quarters. I think that is attributable to some folks liking a certain sound. For folks seeking a "sound", one of those will likely satisfy, depending on the sort of sound they seek.
What I love about the '8 is the enormous amount of trouble I've had pinning down its "sound". So far, when used at a 4x rate (i.e., 176.4k or 192k), I haven't been able to distinguish its output from my microphone feed. That is something I've never experienced before with any other device, analog or digital, regardless of price.
Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
Hi Barry,
Thank you for the reply. You are the principle reason for me choosing the LIO-8 in the first place. I am still very happy with my decision. You are spot on in regards to the high level of performance of this DAC. It can do way more than I could even think about. I remember reading your posts on computer audiophile and saw how helpful and free with advice you were/are, so thank you for all the knowledge.
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