DSD Questions

[channelclassics]

The costs of having the site made - plus the special software developed for this site to be able to handle such large files *(_DSD files are 3 gig, but we have also started offering the multichannel files which can get to 7 gig), the daily work of staff here to help with problems, *the server at a data center in Amsterdam to get as close to the backbone as possible, *well to say it simply we are no where near of getting out of costs. **
We are also dealing with a new service and technology without the lossless compression that Sony / Philips developed. *You now have the same quality as I do! *No concessions at all. *And the files are there on the server under your own account if you happen to lose your files.

The price of the SACD is actually too low. Channel is one of the few who actually record in DSD and not upsample. (two cds glued together - a hybrid cd) The SACD is a niche market but 90% of the buyers just want the normal cd layer. I am only 17euros. ** *If I put the price where it should be because of the investment in the equipment of SACD, the extra work in preparing the files, printing the hybrid cd it would be higher but then I could not sell to the larger market. *I did double inventory in the beginning but it was too much in logistics and now too much overstock!
*
a last point is that I do not wish to compete with my distributors around the world who are working very hard in a difficult market. *Who else is going to support tours of our artists and promote them in the media around the world. * These files are for those that really do appreciate the quality we are offering. *(if one can pay thousands for a quality high end audio system with a high quality DAC, then the extra 5 dollars per file is really not an issue. At least my recordings you can enjoy the rest of your life... try that with your audio system.
*Seeing by the interest from Japan and America at the moment, it is indeed not an issue.

I hope this explains our position.
Jared Sacks

 

[Steve Williams]

Thanks Jared and welcome to WBF

 

[Bruce B]

Welcome to WBF Jared. I hope you stay and continue to contribute your wealth of knowledge!

 

[RBFC]

Welcome to WBF, Jared. I've enjoyed many of your recordings! I hope you contribute some information here, especially about the logistics of providing downloadable music files and the various technical issues involved.

Lee

 

[microstrip]

Call me contrarian but this makes perfect sense. If you have 5 or 6 figures invested in a DSD capable system and you hesitate at paying $30 for a DSD download you are not serious about your hobby. What is throwing us off is that sacd was too cheap all along. They are just figuring the right business model for this market. I mean, we have endless debates about the merits of one $50K amp over the other and $15K tone arms. Let's get real here. The $15 download was a rounding error and the $30 download will still be a rounding error. Now let's go back to $20,000 black anodized color options and $50k audio racks........

I was not questioning the absolute price - I pay a lot more for a Tapeproject tape, but understand why! For me the question was just why a file would cost more than the equivalent SACD with exactly the same content. It surely must be a reason, perhaps simply related with market rules, over stock or no one wanting SACDs, not quality.

 

[michael123]

Why DSD and not say DXD?
What's so bad about PCM?

 

[tailspn]

Why DSD and not say DXD?
What's so bad about PCM?

Decimation in the process of conversion to PCM. See Andreas Koch explanation from 16 minutes to 30 minutes here, earlier posted on this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj7d7Jnx0xc

 

[opus111]

Why DSD and not say DXD?

DXD is yet another PCM format, its much higher bitrate than DSD.

What's so bad about PCM?

Nothing but for the fact that its not proprietary

 

[michael123]

Decimation in the process of conversion to PCM. See Andreas Koch explanation from 16 minutes to 30 minutes here, earlier posted on this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj7d7Jnx0xc

I didn't dig into the algorithmics, but isn't it something double floating point precision used?
Anyways, I meant in general.. if we take a recording that was originally taken a a very high-rate PCM..
What is so good then about the DSD?
Actually, on every spectrum of DSD I see a lot of noise over 30KHz.. Actually, if I see it on the PCM spectrum I know it is not a real transfer of HDTracks but just a rip of SACD

So..?

 

[michael123]

DXD is yet another PCM format, its much higher bitrate than DSD.



Nothing but for the fact that its not proprietary

Yep.. But maybe there is something more I yet to understand..

 

[opus111]

Actually, on every spectrum of DSD I see a lot of noise over 30KHz..

On almost all DSD mastered RBCDs I have, I hear a lot of noise below 15kHz....

 

[mep]

What is a DSD mastered RBCD? Do you mean a DSD disc/file that has been converted to RBCD?

 

[tailspn]

Yep.. But maybe there is something more I yet to understand..

Watch the video, 16 minuets to 30. The issue is all A/D converters front ends are Sigma-Delta converters which serialize the incoming analog into a DSD like bit stream. Conversion to PCM is necessary for production companies to use their traditional post production tools, not for archiving the audio. A necessary evil if you require much post processing for the recording. Native DSD production eliminates the conversion steps, all of which degrade the original A/D conversion.

 

[opus111]

What is a DSD mastered RBCD? Do you mean a DSD disc/file that has been converted to RBCD?

Yes, that's what I take them to be, DSD files/tapes downconverted to 44k1/16 but often the info provided isn't totally clear about it.

 

[opus111]

The issue is all A/D converters front ends are Sigma-Delta converters which serialize the incoming analog into a DSD like bit stream.

It may be that all ADCs currently being used are S-D type, however there are other ways to accomplish A/D conversion. When I was working in the pro audio industry I learned that Neve avoided S-D converters in their studio consoles because of the latency issues.

 

[Bruce B]

It may be that all ADCs currently being used are S-D type, however there are other ways to accomplish A/D conversion. When I was working in the pro audio industry I learned that Neve avoided S-D converters in their studio consoles because of the latency issues.

Neve has never had any digital converters in their consoles!

 

[opus111]

Perhaps my source meant they were in external racks but connected to the consoles. How far back does your knowledge of Neve consoles go?

This Neve Capricorn lists 26 ADC PCBs as part of the package - http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMS-Neve-Capricorn-Digital-Mixing-Console-72-Faders-/360388576869

 

[mep]

Perhaps my source meant they were in external racks but connected to the consoles. How far back does your knowledge of Neve consoles go?

This Neve Capricorn lists 26 ADC PCBs as part of the package - http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMS-Neve-Capricorn-Digital-Mixing-Console-72-Faders-/360388576869

But it's listed as a digital console and all of the A/D-D/A cards are in a standard outboard 19" rack.

 

[opus111]

Yep, so...? The guys who designed the Neve console also designed the ADCs to go with it, they're a complete system. If Bruce's point is that the ADCs aren't physically located within the console then I accept they're not, but that's beside the point. Those ADCs on the PCBs mentioned in my understanding aren't Sigma-Delta type because such introduce too much latency.

 

[MadFloyd]

I checked out Channel Classics and noticed that the DSD files were in DFF format. I'm new to all of this but I thought the preferred format is DSF because it accommodates tags. Am I wrong?