I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

[Mike Lavigne]

Ron, re steering twds warmth from a platform, as we discussed it appears Mike strives for uber neutrality at all times, and prefers not to "tailor" a sound by deliberate mix of components.
And this is the first time I've heard of active isoln introducing warmth into a setup.

you miss read my post.

using a high mass steel table top will increase warmth compared active isolation generally. the high mass will in essence change the frequency of the resonance and add a bit of warmth (less focus). active isolation will attenuate the resonance to a large degree increasing focus and articulation.

these are relative results and the actual difference is dependent on lots of variables. the musical consequences when applying these things to the new AS-2000 will have to play out. I expect they will be quite system dependent.

 

[rockitman]

"Thor's Hammer" has already been used by Wilson Audio for its current top-of-the-line subwoofer.

That's okay...I will just refer to it as the HAMMER !!!!!

 

[DaveyF]

Congrats gents on what looks like a fine TT.
Looking at isolation for a TT is not always the best answer until the TT is actually placed. I use a low weight TT with spring suspension ( the other thought in TT design). I had assumed ( incorrectly) that by placing it on an isolation base ( air base) that this would be beneficial.
Even before I had done this, I had a conversation with one of the designers at HRS systems...who told me that he seriously doubted this would work well ( the mechanical and structural engineering aspect was his argument). He was absolutely correct! The isolation base seemed to work against the SQ and was definitely a step backwards. ( which BTW, IME, one can make VERY easily in this hobby). Whether a very heavy non-suspended TT like the one you are acquiring will act is the same way is unknown, but I would definitely experiment with and without the active isolation before coming to a final conclusion.

 

[ddk]

Congratulations, rockitman (and Mike)!

Ron too !

I wonder if I could ask a question of yourself and ddk regarding the motor unit and controller.

They appear to be similar to these ones mentioned here on WBF member airbearing’s site AudioCirc.com, and be reminiscent of the Micro Seiki 8000 in form…

https://audiocirc.com/2017/01/10/a-superb-ac-motor-control-unit/

https://13audio.com/2014/01/19/some-serious-turntable-motors/

Without divulging proprietary information, could either of you talk to the American Sound’s motor and control unit’s origins and its design ethos?

Thanks, and congrats again,

853guy

Hi 853 Guy,

Airbearing/AudioCirc is a good friend and we've been chatting & sharing for years, in fact he introduced the engineer who designed the AS motor controller and flywheel. The picture is of the first three AS motors & controllers we made. These motors are unique and demand sophisticated engineering to operate optimally, this controller was specifically designed for these motors from scratch and every controller is also individually programmed to the matching motor's operating parameters and that's what you see in AudioCirc.com's pictures.

david

 

[rockitman]

Congratulations Christian. I'll be curious to see if you end up keeping all three turntables. You read my mind when you mentioned the SAT arm. I would love to read a comparison between it and the 3012R.

With all of the vinyl listening I see in your future, will you have any time to take more of your amazing bird photographs? I admire your drive (pun) to seek out the best in whatever you pursue.

Thanks Peter...as far as bird photography goes. the tiny songbird warblers I like to photograph are really only active for about three weeks starting at the beginning of May. After that, they are settled with their mate and nesting and do not respond to bird calls which are required to get the bird out of the tree tops and near my camera on the ground.

I really don't know what I will do with my other TT's. If I were to sell one, The AF1 makes more sense as it commands a much higher price in the used market compared to my Clearaudio Master Innovation. Time will tell. In all likelihood, I will keep the AF1 too...

 

[rockitman]

Dear Christian and Mike,

Congratulations on ordering the turntables from David! We likely will be in for a fascinating experience out of which, hopefully, will come one of the best turntables in the world!

I have been working with Tim of Herzan on a heavy-duty -- and heavier -- version of a custom Herzan stand for the new turntable. I have specified 3" (rather than 2") box legs for this stand, with a table top designed to support the TS-300, or the TS-300 with enhanced, 340 kg load capacity.

I also have specified the external linear (non-switching) power supply. For my tabletop I have opted for 1/2" stainless steel.

Since I may be ordering three of these stands to support all of my (future) components, Tim is looking into the additional cost of powder-coating with high-quality automotive paint.

I do not know if I actually will use a TS-300 under the turntable -- I probably will not -- but I wanted to preserve the option to do so in the future, which is why I have been working on this Herzan stand as an alternative to David's recommendation of the very similar Kinetic Systems stand. Also, the custom Herzans would allow me to have matching stands.

Thank you Ron...depending on your stand height, 3" box tube may be overkill. I am going to investigate the complete package....Active Isolation workstation table using the AVI active isolation beams that Mike is talking about. I have little doubt in my mind that active isolation can only improve the sound of the Hammer.

 

[Tango]

.as far as bird photography goes. the tiny songbird warblers I like to photograph

You do bird watching, car tracking, cycling, music listening...what else you do sir? Sailing? Flying?
Very interesting individual.

Tang

 

[rockitman]

You do bird watching, car tracking, cycling, music listening...what else you do sir? Sailing? Flying?
Very interesting individual.

Tang

I know how to sail and I do motor boat on a local lake, I prefer to stay on the ground...so no flying...and as little as possible with commercial aviation. Maintaining the homestead is another passion (I know, boring) and I play, collect guitars and like fast sports cars....

 

[microstrip]

(...) I mean, I don't see the digital crazies running multiple dacs, tubed, SS etc, or two servers etc.

WBF has a section of Analog Anonymous, we still do not have Digital Anonymous ... But they exist!

 

[ddk]

I know how to sail and I do motor boat on a local lake, I prefer to stay on the ground...so no flying...and as little as possible with commercial aviation. Maintaining the homestead is another passion (I know, boring) and I play, collect guitars and like fast sports cars....

Can't wait to become just as boring !

david

 

[microstrip]

(...) (2) the platter rides on a bed of air, but no bearing, just a guide (...)

Are you saying that the platter/spindle system completely floats and there is no physical contact between it and the plinth?

 

[ddk]

That's okay...I will just refer to it as the HAMMER !!!!!

I'm thinking of calling it The Monolith.

david

 

[ddk]

Are you saying that the platter/spindle system completely floats and there is no physical contact between it and the plinth?

No moving parts, the platter floats independent of the base and is only centered with the use of guide which is part of the overall platter design.

david

 

[spiritofmusic]

David, please not The Monolith.
Far be it for a mere mortal like me to disagree w the daddy of this thing, but that word suggests mass w no agility, which is obv not the sound you've achieved.
My suggestion based on the fact it looks like it was struck from a mountainside by God Himself, is "Hewn For Sound".
Good? Or cheesy?

 

[ddk]

David, please not The Monolith.
Far be it for a mere mortal like me to disagree w the daddy of this thing, but that word suggests mass w no agility, which is obv not the sound you've achieved.
My suggestion based on the fact it looks like it was struck from a mountainside by God Himself, is "Hewn For Sound".
Good? Or cheesy?

LOL Marc, but it also means the source of it all! There won't be a name anywhere on to the tables, they'll remain above it all like their ancestor.

david

 

[Gardener]

Thanks Peter...as far as bird photography goes. the tiny songbird warblers I like to photograph are really only active for about three weeks starting at the beginning of May. After that, they are settled with their mate and nesting and do not respond to bird calls which are required to get the bird out of the tree tops and near my camera on the ground.

I really don't know what I will do with my other TT's. If I were to sell one, The AF1 makes more sense as it commands a much higher price in the used market compared to my Clearaudio Master Innovation. Time will tell. In all likelihood, I will keep the AF1 too...

A first post
But have often followed and enjoyed threads on this forum
rockitman before you sell your AF1 try the SAT tonearm on it
I have both with the koetsu coralstone cartridge
And used to have the elite before which is great arm But the SAT is something else

A huge congratulations on the new turntable to all

 

[Stacore]

No moving parts, the platter floats independent of the base and is only centered with the use of guide which is part of the overall platter design.

david

V interesting. Im wondering how this provides the lateral rigidity.

Cheers,

 

[rockitman]

A first post
But have often followed and enjoyed threads on this forum
rockitman before you sell your AF1 try the SAT tonearm on it
I have both with the koetsu coralstone cartridge
And used to have the elite before which is great arm But the SAT is something else

A huge congratulations on the new turntable to all

Thank you. Who said I was selling the AF1 ? I currently have one on my Coralstone's being rebuilt at Koetsu with diamond cantilever. I should have that by the end of November. The SAT arm may not be budgeted until 2019 at this point. Of course if the designer wants to get a demo SAT arm into my hands to try in my system, I could be motivated to buy it immediately if it delivers what everyone seems to be talking about with this arm.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Congrats gents on what looks like a fine TT.
Looking at isolation for a TT is not always the best answer until the TT is actually placed. I use a low weight TT with spring suspension ( the other thought in TT design). I had assumed ( incorrectly) that by placing it on an isolation base ( air base) that this would be beneficial.
Even before I had done this, I had a conversation with one of the designers at HRS systems...who told me that he seriously doubted this would work well ( the mechanical and structural engineering aspect was his argument). He was absolutely correct! The isolation base seemed to work against the SQ and was definitely a step backwards. ( which BTW, IME, one can make VERY easily in this hobby). Whether a very heavy non-suspended TT like the one you are acquiring will act is the same way is unknown, but I would definitely experiment with and without the active isolation before coming to a final conclusion.

Davey,

an air base is passive, it floats, and settles and has it's own resonance (period of movement). I would expect as you described, it was not a good match for a lightweight turntable with another passive isolation process happening as the two passive devices create their own storm of unpredictable consequences.

I've been using a heavy (125 lbs) non suspended turntable on my active TS-140 for 5 years in my system and it performs admirably.

as far as experimenting with active isolation with this 550 pound American Sounds non suspended turntable; the idea of basically custom ordering this exotic active stand and not being all-in committed is daunting to say the least.

either way; nude or active, you need to do your study and then go for it.

I've done my homework and i'll likely go the active route; if I'm not happy i'll then cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I hate this thread, I really hate it!
I'm feeling the urge to go for a final FINAL tt/arm upgrade.
Not just yet, and prob not at AS-2000 or AF1 price levels.
But next one down.
I've had independent confirmation from one of our most respected members here that I'm really achieving something special in my room, which is so great to hear.
I'm happy w amps and spkrs, and critically the amps/spkrs/room synergy.
Streamer and dac big move happens in 2018, by which time I'll be completing my system-wide Stacores isoln project.
And then I may treat myself with a crazy good analog investment.
AS-2000 as I say is a bit beyond me, and will be n/a.
But that still leaves a few contenders in the $35-50k range.
As I said, I really hate this thread .