State-of-the-Art Digital

Mdp632

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2016
431
140
173
Spectral SDR-4000SV (CD only )

EMM Labs DA2 + NS1 ( dac + streamer )
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,685
4,474
963
Greater Boston
Hi, The Vivaldi Clock adds space, textures and resolution. Things unravel better, in it's own space so to speak and just the fineness of the resolution increases. All of this draws you into the music and a better emotional connection. It's one of those things you hear from the first note and just can't go back to no clock in a Vivaldi set up...

Thanks for the info.
 

Kingsrule

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2011
1,432
681
1,430
dCS vs. MSB

I had both the Rossini and Vivaldi stack and MSB SII

dCS sounds mechanical and contrived, nothing like music. Actually its really bad

MSB on the other hand is very, very musical....its the most realistic sounding digital source I have heard

I would like to compare it to the Total dac.....
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,685
4,474
963
Greater Boston
dCS vs. MSB

I had both the Rossini and Vivaldi stack and MSB SII

dCS sounds mechanical and contrived, nothing like music. Actually its really bad

MSB on the other hand is very, very musical....its the most realistic sounding digital source I have heard

I would like to compare it to the Total dac.....

Not to counter your observations, but don't you use DAC direct into power amp? If so, the MSB most likely would have a great advantage. It's preamp section is famed to be excellent and even has been reported to be preferred to any separate preamp, whereas Vivaldi direct into amp is really not so hot...

In fact, I now doubt that any DAC Direct option is really viable unless you go with MSB Select II or Reference DACs (the MSB Premier digital volume control isn't that hot either).

I now know what a really good preamp brings to a system. It's huge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alrainbow

Uk Paul

Member Sponsor
Sep 27, 2012
516
183
955
UK
Maybe often overlooked is the top Ayon DAC, the Stratos, I'm using it with their CD-Tii transport only, it keeps me very happily entertained :) It's hard to tell apart from really good sounding analogue here..
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 5, 2013
873
399
973
Not to counter your observations, but don't you use DAC direct into power amp? If so, the MSB most likely would have a great advantage. It's preamp section is famed to be excellent and even has been reported to be preferred to any separate preamp, whereas Vivaldi direct into amp is really not so hot...

In fact, I now doubt that any DAC Direct option is really viable unless you go with MSB Select II or Reference DACs (the MSB Premier digital volume control isn't that hot either).

I now know what a really good preamp brings to a system. It's huge.

No. MSB Select 2 preamp is not that great. My CH L1 beats it hands down. L1 gives much more dynamics.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,685
4,474
963
Greater Boston
No. MSB Select 2 preamp is not that great. My CH L1 beats it hands down. L1 gives much more dynamics.

Wow, interesting! That's the first time that I have heard anything negative about the MSB Select 2 preamp (not that I've listened to it myself; I did listen to the Vivaldi internal pre).
 

jespera

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2018
494
539
200
London
Weird thing about digital is that, contrary to engineering theory, the source is as important as the dac.

The digital source defines the character (soul) of the replay.

The best digital sources ive heard are early cd players.

I havent heard anything computer that id recommend.

I like dacs with tda1541 chips and valves and I love my abbas 2.1se dac. He does better models than mine though.

Jesper
 

adyc

VIP/Donor
Jan 5, 2013
873
399
973
Wow, interesting! That's the first time that I have heard anything negative about the MSB Select 2 preamp (not that I've listened to it myself; I did listen to the Vivaldi internal pre).

I have compared them extensively. I actually use it without preamp first as I want to save one component. I found it lacking life and energy. I decide to add L1. It gives life back to my system.

I agree with you preamp is very important. To me, it is the most important component in the chain.
 
Last edited:

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Because I believe that with digital “technically advanced” is highly correlated with more analog-like sound quality.

Well, I can't see why. Digital and analog are different views of stereo sound reproduction, although you can tune digital to sound more analog-like, it does not mean it is technically advanced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeterA

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
I heard a direct comparison between the Vivaldi stack and the Yggy in a familiar system. I only very slightly preferred the Vivaldi, though two of my friends much preferred the Yggy in this same system. Perhaps the Yggy DAC should be on Ron's list. :) Don't ask me which version of each we compared, as these things change frequently and I can't keep up.o_O

I really liked the dCS Rossini when I auditioned it at a local dealer.

Well, IMHO the important thing would be a good description of the system and room. A comparison in another system is worthless to Ron unless their is some similitude between system or listeners preferences.

I have often told that we must tune a system around a particular piece of top digital. The Vivaldi is not an easy piece of equipment, I have listened to it sounding miserable more than once, but I have also listened to it sounding like master tape. BTW, as others, in general I would not recommend it to be used without preamplifier, although it seems that with some particular tube amplifiers it can sound magnificent.
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,268
950
Bangkok
Try an iPad with an Apple Airport in a direct comparison with any of the above and see how much you gain if any sonically by spending tens of thousands more and having to deal with constant complications and never ending upgrades that are simple to do inside the Apple eco system. Yes there are differences in hifi values but musically computer sources all share the same inherent qualities and short comings no matter what you spend, IMO.

david
You are ruining the market sentiment here khun David. Here is a bunch of people with a lot of disposable income. We are trying to figure out where to put money to beside those investment funds. Think of this as a generous support to the audio industry. Only that when we buy we should buy from a friend so some money would still be in the circle instead of 100% to those suckers. :D
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,347
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Ron, are you referring to the digital audition at Mike's as the same visit during which you compared his three amplifiers? I recall that was a fairly lively discussion.

It was far from a digital audition. Digital was playing only in between more serious analog listening.

Still, I found the digital I heard very briefly at Mike’s to be the least offensive and the best-sounding digital I had heard.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Ron, there are a number of dacs that i would rate highly if you are looking for an organic, rich, analog sound (in no particular order):
1. Total Dac D1 Direct or D1 Twelve
2. Lampizator Pacific
3. Metronome C8+
4. Zanden 4 box dac

I am not a fan of DCS nor Esoteric but i have not heard them in a while. The Scarlatti was absolutely awful imo.
I have to say after all these years, it is nice to see the Zanden still being raised in such such august company. I have not heard any of the others...the only one i have heard from this current generation is the Vivaldi which i have heard on multiple systems over the years but drawn limited conclusions as there too many variables.

Weird thing about digital is that, contrary to engineering theory, the source is as important as the dac.

The digital source defines the character (soul) of the replay.

The best digital sources ive heard are early cd players.

I havent heard anything computer that id recommend.

I like dacs with tda1541 chips and valves and I love my abbas 2.1se dac. He does better models than mine though.

Jesper
You're not the only one, we like these exact things too :D
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,347
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
FWIW Ron , Joseph Cali recommends to me the Innuous Statement with MSB Reference. I currently have the low end of dCS in the Bartok, really like the sound and dCS is very well made. He is a dealer for both. However Comparing is not possible for me as The entire system is being replaced. Too many heavy boxes all at once, I will go with what he recommends.

Joseph Cali knows his stuff. Anything from Joe is a very solid recommendation.

It’s interesting that he matches the MSB Reference with the Innuous Statement, rather than the Select.
 
Last edited:

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,347
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Try an iPad with an Apple Airport in a direct comparison with any of the above and see how much you gain if any sonically by spending tens of thousands more and having to deal with constant complications and never ending upgrades that are simple to do inside the Apple eco system. Yes there are differences in hifi values but musically computer sources all share the same inherent qualities and short comings no matter what you spend, IMO.

david

Maybe I will find an old Radio Shack 1/8” stereo plug to RCAs wire and connect the iPhone to the line preamplifier and play Qobuz and just tell everyone it is a super expensive streamer going into a super expensive DAC?
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
Maybe I will find an old Radio Shack 1/8” stereo plug to RCAs wire and connect the iPhone to the line preamplifier and play Qobuz and just tell everyone it is a super expensive streamer going into a super expensive DAC?
Even better! But iPads do sound slightly better than iPhones, I think it has to do with the cellular electronics of the phones.

I'm not kidding!

david
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
You are ruining the market sentiment here khun David. Here is a bunch of people with a lot of disposable income. We are trying to figure out where to put money to beside those investment funds. Think of this as a generous support to the audio industry. Only that when we buy we should buy from a friend so some money would still be in the circle instead of 100% to those suckers. :D
Ron needs to finish his house first! :D

David
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron Resnick

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing