State-of-the-Art Digital

spiritofmusic

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Hey, don't tell Blue58 or Emile...but I think Blue's La Fontaine has the edge on his SGM/Formula.
 

Blue58

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Hey, don't tell Blue58 or Emile...but I think Blue's La Fontaine has the edge on his SGM/Formula.
And your Eera will sound better than the Extreme, Yada, Yada, Yada :rolleyes:
 
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spiritofmusic

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Barry, we've had multiple reports of disc spinners beating streamers. And since noone is prepared to do an MSB Select transport versus Extreme on MSB Select dac, or Wadax Atlantis transport versus Wadax Atlantis server on Wadax Reference dac, then there is no definitive ranking.
There is one data point...reports that discs played back on the Vivaldi transport have the edge on the Vivaldi server on the Vivaldi dac.

So, no need to be terse, of course I'm not saying my Eera beats the Extreme. But there were aspects of yr Audio Aero SQ that may not be fully replicated via the SGM.

Anyhow, it was only a light hearted comment on the topic of superior French cdps. Not meant to be taken literally.
 

matthias

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And since noone is prepared to do an MSB Select transport versus Extreme on MSB Select dac, or Wadax Atlantis transport versus Wadax Atlantis server on Wadax Reference dac, then there is no definitive ranking.

AFAIK, @audioquattr prefered the Extreme over his MSB Transport both into his Lampi DAC.

Matt
 

spiritofmusic

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Pretty impressive. To add to already impressive Extreme.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Hey, don't tell Blue58 or Emile...but I think Blue's La Fontaine has the edge on his SGM/Formula.

i can say (and have said) that my SGM server/Formula was superior on redbook files to my La Diva Transport/Formula on CD even with the proprietary Aqua interface and the La Diva sitting on my Herzan. it was very close, but i very slightly preferred the files.

it's only a data point, and the La Diva while an excellent sounding transport, is not at or near the top rank of transports. OTOH the SGM 2015 is not there either anymore.
 

spiritofmusic

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Mike, my biggest sensitivity now in audio is perceived lack of midband texture or fleshiness in gear. I tend to hear more of what I like here in idler drives, triodes, analog, and xoverless full range box spkrs or well-sorted horns. And yes, the very best cdp's (seemingly 95% of them being French, only exception being the Marantz CD12/DA12 from late 80s).
I've heard a half dozen servers, incl a very pricey prototype and one that has proprietary software, that sound great at first blush, but their lack of palpability in the critical mids region gives away the game.
On one occasion, switching from the whistles and bells server to a YBA cdp wasn't even close.
I'm not gonna draw any conclusion greater than that. I have no doubts Extreme succesfully bridges the gap. I have a chance to hear it soon if Boris lets me out of the chapel (or I hitch a ride in Dominic Cummings's car Lol). I'll be the first to declare if it does that chocolate midband trick successfully.
My only point w Blue's system is that his Audio Aero La Fontaine cdp had a heft and creaminess to midband and upper bass that his subsequent SGM maybe hasn't quite matched
I'll freely admit the SGM is more transparent and faster
But since what draws me in most listening to lps is this mids quality, and is what I hear live in concert, I'm only reporting it as I hear it
If the Extreme demo happens, I'll know if its doing the mids solidity thing as well as the best cdp's and maybe in analog territory
If I hear that, Emile will have my lifelong admiration as the first digital engineer to get THAT hugely elusive quality.
 

howiebrou

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Mike, my biggest sensitivity now in audio is perceived lack of midband texture or fleshiness in gear. I tend to hear more of what I like here in idler drives, triodes, analog, and xoverless full range box spkrs or well-sorted horns. And yes, the very best cdp's (seemingly 95% of them being French, only exception being the Marantz CD12/DA12 from late 80s).
I've heard a half dozen servers, incl a very pricey prototype and one that has proprietary software, that sound great at first blush, but their lack of palpability in the critical mids region gives away the game.
On one occasion, switching from the whistles and bells server to a YBA cdp wasn't even close.
I'm not gonna draw any conclusion greater than that. I have no doubts Extreme succesfully bridges the gap. I have a chance to hear it soon if Boris lets me out of the chapel (or I hitch a ride in Dominic Cummings's car Lol). I'll be the first to declare if it does that chocolate midband trick successfully.
My only point w Blue's system is that his Audio Aero La Fontaine cdp had a heft and creaminess to midband and upper bass that his subsequent SGM maybe hasn't quite matched
I'll freely admit the SGM is more transparent and faster
But since what draws me in most listening to lps is this mids quality, and is what I hear live in concert, I'm only reporting it as I hear it
If the Extreme demo happens, I'll know if its doing the mids solidity thing as well as the best cdp's and maybe in analog territory
If I hear that, Emile will have my lifelong admiration as the first digital engineer to get THAT hugely elusive quality.
Seems like you have a solution Marc. Stick an Extreme or whatever Server you like in your system for a month and have at em'. Life's too short to fart around!
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Stick an Extreme or whatever Server you like in your system for a month and have at em'. Life's too short to fart around!

Eh Marc, stick something extreme or whatever in your system for a month and you will likely fart around
 

spiritofmusic

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Seems like you have a solution Marc. Stick an Extreme or whatever Server you like in your system for a month and have at em'. Life's too short to fart around!
Howie, great idea. You send the cheque to Emile, but put Victoria Chapel on the delivery address.
I'll buy a £1k MHDT Atlantis dac, get a trial USB Sablon...Bob's yr uncle.
 

Kingsrule

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Seems like you have a solution Marc. Stick an Extreme or whatever Server you like in your system for a month and have at em'. Life's too short to fart around!

Except Marc like to jerk everyone and everything to the nth degree
 

howiebrou

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Howie, great idea. You send the cheque to Emile, but put Victoria Chapel on the delivery address.
I'll buy a £1k MHDT Atlantis dac, get a trial USB Sablon...Bob's yr uncle.

If you promise to buy it, if it's as good as we say?:D
 

spiritofmusic

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What ARE you talking about?
 

the sound of Tao

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i can say (and have said) that my SGM server/Formula was superior on redbook files to my La Diva Transport/Formula on CD even with the proprietary Aqua interface and the La Diva sitting on my Herzan. it was very close, but i very slightly preferred the files.

it's only a data point, and the La Diva while an excellent sounding transport, is not at or near the top rank of transports. OTOH the SGM 2015 is not there either anymore.
+1 A good mate lent me his Aqua Formula with Diva transport for 6 weeks ages ago and I jockeyed between that and the Formula running then with a Sotm ultra. In terms of musicality the Sotm had a slight edge but in many ways it was just different to the Diva transport. I enjoyed both musically but felt the Sotm formula combo was more resolving and had moments of realness. I had resurrected my old CD library to compare but at less than a thousand CD albums I realised the joy with a CD transport compared to streaming would become also a repetitive stuck sameness primarily confined musically to just even a thousand or even then if it became five thousand CDs.

Also the initially pleasant visceral quality of the Diva Formula combo revealed itself largely as a function of the ringing of the underdamped chassis and gave something of a sonic sameness on all the CDs. The Formula via server renderer combination was equally musical, equally fluid, more revealing and ultimately more natural and approached more the way instruments sound in life. More of the differences between the recording spaces was also clearly captured. Back then I went with the Sotm server over the Aqua transport.

Since then adding a much better quality Antipodes server and now Antipodes server and renderer combination has stepped the difference of server over my experiences of transports by a considerably good margin with more moments of trueness and realness and natural fleshiness than any CD or sacd transport that I’ve heard.

A sota server today for me provides potentially a greater sonic and musical access and an even greater level of naturally resolving performance and trueness... then in conjunction with streaming makes it all such a completely extraordinary and better sonically and more musical experience easily beyond the limitations of a transport and shelves and shelves of shiny silver CDs for me.

I had a ‘65 XP Ford two door pursuit and a Triumph TR7... both romantic as all get out and both essentially with a floaty ride and nicely OK performance, brakes and handling... and that’s what going back to the limits of a CD library via transport these days kinda feels like, nice, enjoyable but not really about all the performance (and far more importantly all the musical access) thats where it’s now at for me these days... a sota server and streaming is pure music and endless musical freedom and discovery. I gave all my CDs and my previous transport to my dad so that phase of a former digital life is a nicely valued memory but in truth with a great server in place now I’m not looking back at all.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Graham, as usual from you, a nicely articulated case in favour of streaming. I've only really heard one slam dunk streamer I really respect (Blue's SGM, first on T&A Dac8, and now the Aqua Formula XHD...I missed his minor excursions w Lampi GG and Denafrips Terminator), and sessions at his have always been never less than engrossing. I just have an aural memory of the AA cdp that I fully admit could be misleading.
I just remember less than stellar sonics cds being more forgiving than the same recordings via the SGM.
I also fully get that the mental gear shift to choosing music differently via streaming then has a knock on effect on how that music is enjoyed compared to picking cds off the shelf.
No way is Extreme happening this side of anything tangible. And thus it's good to hear that there are alternative wholly immersive server choices out there which totally get one in the zone.
The SGM as was at €16k is one. It's finding those others.
 
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the sound of Tao

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Marc from what I’ve read the Innuos Zen with Phoenix sounds a great value server option, certainly if it outstrips Austinpop’s Sotm triple setup... perhaps then with a Schiit yggy2 via the new Unison USB... if three of the Boston boys (who regularly reference against live concerts) own and love them I’d definitely be checking out that Schiit for sure.
 
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spiritofmusic

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The datapoints are out there, no doubt about that.
 

howiebrou

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Graham, as usual from you, a nicely articulated case in favour of streaming. I've only really heard one slam dunk streamer I really respect (Blue's SGM, first on T&A Dac8, and now the Aqua Formula XHD...I missed his minor excursions w Lampi GG and Denafrips Terminator), and sessions at his have always been never less than engrossing. I just have an aural memory of the AA cdp that I fully admit could be misleading.
I just remember less than stellar sonics cds being more forgiving than the same recordings via the SGM.
I also fully get that the mental gear shift to choosing music differently via streaming then has a knock on effect on how that music is enjoyed compared to picking cds off the shelf.
No way is Extreme happening this side of anything tangible. And thus it's good to hear that there are alternative wholly immersive server choices out there which totally get one in the zone.
The SGM as was at €16k is one. It's finding those others.
Marc, I wouldn’t dismiss the Innuos servers. They are great value and picking up a used one is easy if you’re not convinced about streaming yet. That’s what I would do in your position.
 
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spiritofmusic

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It's very likely, Howie. The price uptick from Aussie on Tao's Antopodes gear is a little stiff, and I may regret lack of Roon Core if I go Lumin or Fidata etc.
And there is not one poor review yet on Innuos...it's the streamer at that sweet spot in the market that likely outperforms it's price point.
The issue in the UK is lack of choice of dac under £5k. Zenith and Chord Qutest or Hugo TT is reasonably easy to line up at multiple dealers. Exogal Comet and Lab12 dacs can be demoed, but not on Innuos. But choosing from MHDT Atlantis, Holo Springs, Schiit Yggy, APL DSD-AR, is more of a punt.
Anyhow this is kinda OT. No doubt I'll whittle choices down. Right now if I was gonna choose w no further ado, it would be Zenith w Yggy Unison 2 and a Sablon 2020 USB cbl, Innuos Phoenix reclocker and maybe EtherRegen at later date when the upgrade bug hits.
 
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Empirical Audio

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My experience with Antipodes shows that it is well-optimized for USB. Used them at shows. The servers with LPS are wonderful sounding when driving a competent USB converter or USB interface on a DAC. Those are harder to find...
 

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