MBL 101 X-Tremes

HughP3

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i think the x-treme's amplification requirements make it such a one way direction it reduces serious consideration. requires serious power amps, and 4 of them to do it right. and the right amps would not be one's many might choose otherwise.

in comparison; other $200k+ speaker choices the amp considerations are mostly flexible.

i have certainly been blown away by the x-treme's when i've heard them. and they would fit in my room. but the amp issue stops me cold.

those that say if you can afford the speakers should be able to afford the amps are missing the point. you have to buy things with an exit strategy in mind. there is no exit strategy with this.
mike i knew i was missing a speaker, your mm7’s.

very perceptive point on exit strategy. and looks like the mbl’s need the long wall. humm well still worth a listen but i now see why its a complex road that evidently few are willing to take.
 
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speshal

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mike i knew i was missing a speaker, your mm7’s.

very perceptive point on exit strategy. and looks like the mbl’s need the long wall. humm well still worth a listen but i now see why its a complex road that evidently few are willing to take.
I'm going to have a video soon of a customer install of the Extremes. I'm friends with the guy and the dealer, so I'll be able to tag along and film...much like I recently did with an MBL101e install.

The guy who bought the Extremes will be using 4 Ayon Orthos monoblocks. It will be interesting to see/hear how well they do.

I actually have footage already of his room with the MBL 101e and Ayons, but haven't released the video yet... Maybe after Xmas I'll have time.
 

HughP3

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I'm going to have a video soon of a customer install of the Extremes. I'm friends with the guy and the dealer, so I'll be able to tag along and film...much like I recently did with an MBL101e install.

The guy who bought the Extremes will be using 4 Ayon Orthos monoblocks. It will be interesting to see/hear how well they do.

I actually have footage already of his room with the MBL 101e and Ayons, but haven't released the video yet... Maybe after Xmas I'll have time.
will be very interesting thanks
 
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spiritofmusic

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i think the x-treme's amplification requirements make it such a one way direction it reduces serious consideration. requires serious power amps, and 4 of them to do it right. and the right amps would not be one's many might choose otherwise.

in comparison; other $200k+ speaker choices the amp considerations are mostly flexible.

i have certainly been blown away by the x-treme's when i've heard them. and they would fit in my room. but the amp issue stops me cold.

those that say if you can afford the speakers should be able to afford the amps are missing the point. you have to buy things with an exit strategy in mind. there is no exit strategy with this.
You'd certainly be planning on such a purchase being the ultimate exit strategy in itself...exit from any further thoughts of upgrading/better spkrs system.
If that really didn't pan out, well...
 

Zero000

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I'm going to have a video soon of a customer install of the Extremes. I'm friends with the guy and the dealer, so I'll be able to tag along and film...much like I recently did with an MBL101e install.

The guy who bought the Extremes will be using 4 Ayon Orthos monoblocks. It will be interesting to see/hear how well they do.

I actually have footage already of his room with the MBL 101e and Ayons, but haven't released the video yet... Maybe after Xmas I'll have time.
He might have trouble with them shutting down. The only mode that may work is 4 Ohm taps in pentode with one mono driving each of the 4 "101E" if you like.

I had a pair for a while driving Duettas.
 
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SuperDave

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My uncle knows the guy that just had the install done in Houston. Hopefully I'll get a listen, I've never heard an MBL setup. Looks x-treme!
 
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speshal

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I was able to get the video done of the guy using MBL 101e temporarily until his Extremes arrive. You can see the Ayon Orthos monos setup ready for the Extremes. One had some blown tubes, so you only see 3 for now.

Of course, I'll be there when the Extremes come in to film that too. He's a great guy and friend now too.

 
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Eichenbaum

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You'd certainly be planning on such a purchase being the ultimate exit strategy in itself...exit from any further thoughts of upgrading/better spkrs system.
If that really didn't pan out, well...
It’s not a marriage, just a purchase of speakers. You can change your mind whenever you want, without spending half your assets.
 
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Lagonda

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I was able to get the video done of the guy using MBL 101e temporarily until his Extremes arrive. You can see the Ayon Orthos monos setup ready for the Extremes. One had some blown tubes, so you only see 3 for now.

Of course, I'll be there when the Extremes come in to film that too. He's a great guy and friend now too.

Is this the room the X-stremes are going into ? What size is it ? He is doing REL subs instead of MBL sub stacks, why ? Limited space ? Cost ? I am looking forward to this install ! :) Did the tubes in the Ayon's blow when they started using them on the MBL's ? I have heard of that happening with even the most powerful tube amps, when trying to drive 101E's.
 
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speshal

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Is this the room the X-stremes are going into ? What size is it ? He is doing REL subs instead of MBL sub stacks, why ? Limited space ? Cost ? I am looking forward to this install ! :) Did the tubes in the Ayon's blow when they started using them on the MBL's ? I have heard of that happening with even the most powerful tube amps, when trying to drive 101E's.
Yes...the Extremes are going into this room. It will definitely need some treatments, but I think they are going to wait until after the install to judge the exact needs once they can listen/measure things.

You might have missed the commentary near the end of the video. He will likely use a REL stack of subs instead of the MBL bass towers. The $100k on the MBL sub stack may not be justified in this room on both cost and performance aspects.

He was using the 4 Ayon monos on the MBL 101e's in a bi-amp configuration. I'm not sure what caused one to blow the tubes, but my friend had Ayons, and they aren't the most reliable amps. I think almost all high powered tube amps have potential issues quicker than others because of the tremendous amount of heat they generate and reliance on more tubes.

We shall see if they are enough to power the Extremes. The MBL amps are >400 watts (into 8 ohms) which isn't that crazy although their design is a bit unique and tailored to the speakers. It will be an interesting comparison since I'm sure the dealership can bring the MBL amps over to demo/compare if needed.
 
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Lagonda

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Yes...the Extremes are going into this room. It will definitely need some treatments, but I think they are going to wait until after the install to judge the exact needs once they can listen/measure things.

You might have missed the commentary near the end of the video. He will likely use a REL stack of subs instead of the MBL bass towers. The $100k on the MBL sub stack may not be justified in this room on both cost and performance aspects.

He was using the 4 Ayon monos on the MBL 101e's in a bi-amp configuration. I'm not sure what caused one to blow the tubes, but my friend had Ayons, and they aren't the most reliable amps. I think almost all high powered tube amps have potential issues quicker than others because of the tremendous amount of heat they generate and reliance on more tubes.

We shall see if they are enough to power the Extremes. The MBL amps are 300 watts which isn't that crazy although their design is a bit unique and tailored to the speakers. It will be an interesting comparison since I'm sure the dealership can bring the MBL amps over to demo/compare if needed.
Thank you for the clarification ! The MBL reference amps (9007, 9008A and 9011) are all 440W in balanced configuration, but sound very different, i have owned and own both 9007 and 9011 in my current system.
 
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caesar

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Agree...he worked hard until 1am...probably later (that's when I tapped out).

This next video features demo clips and refers to Jeremy's calibrations in several areas.

For the few that know me and/or my channel, I try to extoll the virtues of DSP (when done right). It was great seeing Jeremy implement DSP with the MBL X-Tremes and hearing the tremendous difference it made from night one. I use Dirac, but the product Jeremy used is featured in this video.

Hi,
Do you mind describing the differences with and without DSP? TU
 
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caesar

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i would like to hear these as part of an audition of ultimate speaker list. XVX, Kodo, Marten Coltrane, Tidal La Assoluta, Genesis, ultra 9 or 11 etc.. the mbl’s design is so unique that sonics should be incomparable to others. besides cost i dont recall seeing anyone on wbf owning a pair tho.

MBLs would be much more transparent than any of your box speaker choices above, since they don't have an enclosure / box.
It is an open, electrostatic transparency, without any of the electrastat downsides.

You also are not paying for the "investment" in the enclosure, so the price of the MBL , while still very extremely high, is not in the ridiculous territory as you have with the top box speaker designs.

Imagine how much less a box speaker would cost if they didn't have to design the box.
 

caesar

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those that say if you can afford the speakers should be able to afford the amps are missing the point. you have to buy things with an exit strategy in mind. there is no exit strategy with this.

The exit strategy is to enjoy the musical experience and not think about anything else. Most MBL owners do just that and don't hang out on forums. Lagonda and myself are the exceptions. :)
 

Mike Lavigne

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The exit strategy is to enjoy the musical experience and not think about anything else. Most MBL owners do just that and don't hang out on forums. Lagonda and myself are the exceptions. :)

i never wrote or inferred that the MBL101's suffered from any buyer's fears about lack of an exit strategy. not at all. it's not the easiest speaker to drive, but not the only speaker like that. plenty buy it and easily sell it. maybe the big MBL amps are a challenge to sell easily......as they are not much sought after by non MBL owners.

OTOH the x-treme's are not only over $200k, but then there are the $100k subwoofers, 4 amps that have to be stout, instead of two, then double speaker and interconnect cables.

it's just a bridge too far for many it seems. the evidence is that we see lots of positives about the performance, but few people talking about owning, and few systems known that use it......compared to other $200k speaker systems.

one has to be thinking $500k retail (whatever that means) to fully optimize them.
 
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Lagonda

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i never wrote or inferred that the MBL101's suffered from any buyer's fears about lack of an exit strategy. not at all. it's not the easiest speaker to drive, but not the only speaker like that. plenty buy it and easily sell it. maybe the big MBL amps are a challenge to sell easily......as they are not much sought after by non MBL owners.

OTOH the x-treme's are not only over $200k, but then there are the $100k subwoofers, 4 amps that have to be stout, instead of two, then double speaker and interconnect cables.

it's just a bridge too far for many it seems. the evidence is that we see lots of positives about the performance, but few people talking about owning, and few systems known that use it......compared to other $200k speaker systems.

one has to be thinking $500k retail (whatever that means) to fully optimize them.
I think the X-tremes are 250$K with subwoofer stacks, i did not hear about buying them without until today. MBL have demoed them with just a single 9011 per side at their factory before. In theory a single powerful amp like your Dartz can handle each main speaker side, they only have passive crossovers, and are adjustable after the amps. I just checked, Absolute Sound listed the price at $263 K for a complete setup, subs and main speakers.
 

adyc

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101e is a 4 ohm load per channel. So if 101X if driven by a single amp per channel, it is more like a 2 ohm load. There are many amps can drive a 2 ohm load like Gryphon Mephisto if one does want to use MBL amp.
 

speshal

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Thank you for the clarification ! The MBL reference amps (9007, 9008A and 9011) are all 440W in balanced configuration, but sound very different, i have owned and own both 9007 and 9011 in my current system.
Yes...You're right. I went back and watched the video with the distributor I filmed, and he said they do 840 watts into 4 ohms. I was thinking of a 300 watt Boulder amp they were using with these 101s. Thanks for the catch.
 
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speshal

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Hi,
Do you mind describing the differences with and without DSP? TU
Sure. First, it's important to remember that the differences will really be dependent on the room and personal tastes.

For this showroom, the bass loading is different on the right side versus the left side, so measurements showed significantly different bass responses per channel on the bass towers. The DSP was effective in "curing" this from a measurement standpoint.

Noteworthy: It was less severe from an audible perspective because the bass towers are handling stuff really low (remember there are 4 woofers on the main speakers). The bass isn't really locate-able, so the channel imbalance wasn't as big as the measurements implied.

Somewhat surprisingly, we did some A/B testing in that showroom and found that most people DIDN'T prefer to have the DSP engaged.

I suspect this is due to a few reasons.

First, it's important to note that the DSP mainly REDUCED the bass in certain areas (which is exactly what you want DSP to do - not add anything). Most people will choose MORE bass versus less bass in relatively short A/B comparisons. It's like the Pepsi challenge. People like the sweeter Pepsi in a shot sized dose, but prefer Coke over a full can.

Frankly, many people prefer more bass over the long-term too. I've seen studies where people generally prefer 1db per octave MORE bass than the perfect flat response. Thus, the removal of bass by DSP may be technically more accurate, but not preferable to many people's tastes.

It also depends on the type of music. If playing a standing bass acoustic piece, too much bass may be less favorable. With rock/pop music, the extra bass just adds to the energy, which is what many people look for when playing that type of music versus perfect accuracy.

Second, Jeremy only had a short time to do the DSP on the bass. I don't have MBLs, but I use DSP, and it took me weeks to get the DSP fine tuned in my listening room. I suspect with more tweaking of the DSP, we'd find more people preferring to have the DSP engaged.

The great thing is that you have the OPTION, and it's very easy to turn on/off, so there's nothing to lose.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Even I am skeptical/concerned that even the most powerful all tube amps may not be a great choice for the X-Treme.

I don't think one needs to use MBL amps necessarily, but I do think that a solid-state output stage is required or is virtually required. That is why my favorite amps for MBLs are high-power hybrid amps.
 

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