Documentary: Making a Murderer - Part Deux | October 19, 2018 - Netflix

NorthStar · Nov 19, 2018

She looks like she's working with the dark forces. It's just a quick comment, it means nothing else. You take it too seriously Steve. This is just a documentary in a forum where we comment without being too serious, not with all the characters surrounding this case. It's a zoo, and the players are low life; Ken Kratz, the detectives, the police, Brendan's first original attorney lawyer, all the manipulation and planting.

That's all Steve.

Just relax and don't call me names that I am not. You are not judging me here, you are just too serious about nothing.

Time to move on, life is short and those people are all sick to send two innocent people in jail for life. We need to get rid of those low life animals.

* I provided a link plus a quote from that link.
You make whatever you want to make of it, me I can tell there is something fishy behind.
You can disagree with me but don't disrespect me Steve.

Swede · Nov 19, 2018

Steve said

She was assigned the case and denied a further evidentiary hearing based on IIRC AEDPA law.

AEDPA is a law that was passed to reduce the massive number of appeals to the SC (and presumably state courts) from prisoners (most, if not nearly all, without merit) that were exacting a heavy from the court system.

And as a law it can be amended to address shortcomings (legislatures do it all the time) that result in legitimate cases like SA's being denied justice. Almost certainly there have been (many?) others just as worthy of reconsideration but have been abandoned as a result of AEDPA and lack of resources to continue.

That's the political angle I alluded to that was left to SA & KJ.

Another thought - What happened to the $36 m civil suit SA brought? This case (in theory anyway), should have no bearing on it. Whatever damages SA incurred due to his previous incarceration are still there.

NorthStar · Nov 19, 2018

That civil lawsuit was settled back in February 2006 for $400,000

"Steven Avery and Manitowoc County have settled Avery's $36 million civil lawsuit against the county and former officials, and the suit has been dismissed.

Attorney Ray Pollen, who represents former Sheriff Thomas Kocourek, said Avery and his attorneys, Walter Kelly and Stephen Glynn, have agreed to "dismiss all claims against the county" in return for $400,000."

NorthStar · Nov 21, 2018

"When interviewed in January 2016, Kenneth Petersen was asked about the 1995 call and the suspicious circumstances around it.

In this interview, Kenneth Petersen makes a stunning confession, admitting that he knew about the call when it came in, in 1995, and that he was told by Gene Kusche and/or then Sheriff Tom Kocourek.

We also have a written memo, from Douglass K. Jones, corroborating this information, that Sheriff Tom Kocourek knew about the call in 1995.

When describing a conversation he (Douglass) had with Gene Kusche, Gene says: "He then told me that in 95 or 96, Andy Colborn had told Tom Kocourek that an officer from Brown County had told Colborn that Allen and not Avery might have actually committed the Beerntsen assault."

Douglass continues: "Gene stated that Colborn was told by Kocourek, something to the affect that we already have the right guy and that he should not concern himself. I asked if this information was known. He said LT. James Lenk was aware. He did not indicate in any way when Lenk first learned about Colborn and Kocourek's conversation"

When asked about this conversation in his deposition, Kusche said he "can't recall". He was then asked if he thought Douglass Jones had any reason to lie about this conversation. Gene Kusche simply answered, "No.".

There it is, in black and white, from Kenneth Peterson and Douglass Jones.

The Sheriff of Manitowoc County KNEW about the call in 95, a call that could have saved Avery eight years, and did NOTHING.

Not to mention Gene Kusche, Kenneth Peterson and possibly other people.

That, my friends, is corruption at its finest."
__________

Kenneth Peterson Interview:

Douglass Jones Memo: https://i.redd.it/by2ww6wp6vr11.jpg

jadis · Nov 21, 2018

I just came across this thread last week, and this is really an eye-opener of a documentary. After watching first the trailers of Seasons 1 and 2, I decided to jump into Season 2 first (can't wait) and after 3 episodes, I am shocked to know this can and is happening in America. The confession tape of Dasser is clearly a trickery and done even without a guardian or lawyer to protest the manner of questioning. I thought I was seeing a movie but since it is real life, I just don't know what to say anymore. I can't wait to see more of how Kathleen will prove the frame up at the end of the season. Gripping.

NorthStar · Nov 21, 2018

She won't quit till Steven is free.

The full two seasons, twenty episodes are a rollercoaster ride.

Swede · Nov 22, 2018

NorthStar said:
That civil lawsuit was settled back in February 2006 for $400,000

"Steven Avery and Manitowoc County have settled Avery's $36 million civil lawsuit against the county and former officials, and the suit has been dismissed.

Attorney Ray Pollen, who represents former Sheriff Thomas Kocourek, said Avery and his attorneys, Walter Kelly and Stephen Glynn, have agreed to "dismiss all claims against the county" in return for $400,000."

Thank you. I was confused. I thought the $400k was a payment from the state. I didn't realize it was from the civil suit (as well?).

NorthStar · Nov 22, 2018

Swede said:
Thank you. I was confused. I thought the $400k was a payment from the state. I didn't realize it was from the civil suit (as well?).

Steven didn't have good attorneys back then. That settlement was peanuts compared to what Steven was entitled to. If Kathleen Zellner had been there @ the time and working for Steven, that amount would have been closer to $10 million in my opinion.
_____

On the latest news (today):

‘Making a Murderer’s’ Kathleen Zellner reveals who she thinks is the real murderer in new interview

"Barb has to know more"

Making a Murderer’s Kathleen Zellner has revealed who she thinks is the main alternative murder suspect after the latest Netflix show held a spotlight to other potential suspects in the case.

In a new interview with The Daily Star, Zellner, who is the new defence lawyer for Steven Avery, has said that Bobby Dassey might be the main alternative suspect and that his mother “has to know more.” Bobby has previously denied any involvement with the murder during the course of the investigation.

Zellner said: “Bobby has testified at trial that Teresa Halbach has walked towards Steven’s trailer and that was the last he saw her. Amazingly on facebook, (and we put this in our plea), Barb [Bobby and Brendan Dassey’s mother] said she talked to Bobby and he said, ‘I had seen her on the property but I never saw her walk towards Steven’s.”

Zellner also alleges that Dassey’s mother erased pornographic material from the Dassey family computer, of which Bobby was allegedly the main user.

Zellner added: “I think she has to know more for this reason – so right now, of the Dassey brothers – there are five of them – there’s a half brother Brad – we have an affidavit from him that Barb told him she hired someone to delete the pornography off the computer.

“She had talked to him because he had some computer knowledge; and of course he didn’t want to get involved with it. We have an affidavit from the older brother Brian saying that bobby’s trail testimony was false and that he did see Teresa leave the property.”

She continued: “And then we have an affidavit from Blaine saying that Bobby lied when he testified at trial when he said that Steven had burned a trash bag in his burn battle where they found the remnants of the phone and all that.”

Zellner also claims that blood allegedly found in Steven’s sink was removed by “the real killer”. She added: “The person I think removed the blood is the killer. It’s not the police. If the police had gone into the trailer and seen that blood… and there’s no question there was blood in the sink because even the person who wiped the blood off left blood drops there that were recovered and photographed by the police.

“If the police had gone in and seen that blood they would not have removed it because they would not know that that was not Teresa’s blood, they would have thought, ‘Oh my God there’s blood in the sink that could be Teresa’s all we’ve got to do is test it and if it’s hers the case is over. You never would have removed the blood – only the killer knows that’s not Teresa’s blood and that’s why they removed it.

“At that point Avery’s cut was almost two weeks old but it split open moving the Dassey trailer and the only person that saw that was Bobby Dassey and the other brother – I don’t know – it was Brendan I think, but they went on the errand with Steven and his other brother Chuck.

“So the only person left there was Bobby Dassey and that’s the night the blood was removed and the Dasseys had a key to Steven’s trailer and Steven saw the taillights once he was exiting the property – you could not have got another vehicle up there other than the Dassey vehicle which was right next door. So he has to have removed the blood and I think because he did that he’s got to be involved in the murder.”
______

*
Earlier this week, Zellner took to Twitter to outline why she believed Avery was innocent in 20 steps. Zenner wrote: “Making A Murderer watchers, listen up. I’m going to walk you through what I’ve learned through my investigation that you didn’t see in the show.”

jadis · Nov 22, 2018

What has struck me so far is KZ stating that Avery and Dasser were up against the whole power, might, and resources of the State of Wisconsin, with so many federal experts called up to testify against them, they really didn't stand a chance of acquittal. And the most downing thing was the refusal of the State to even free Dasser when there was already a reversal order to let him free. It's like nuke weapons vs rifles.

jadis · Nov 23, 2018

Steve Williams said:
He has his conviction overturned by a higher state court BUT the Wisconsin AG refuses to release him because of the Haldbach family. This sparks more filings such that a 3 judge panel of the 7th Circuit hears the case and they too affirm the conviction to be vacated. The AG still refuses to let him out in spite of a young female attorney who pleads his case perfectly. The state of Wisconsin then petitions the entire 7th Circuit of 9 judges to hear the case en banc something which is very rare.

To add insult to injury the 7th court en banc reverses the decision of the 3 panel judges of the same court and agree with the AG that his confession was not coerced. Hence even though his guilty verdict was thrown out by one judge and agreed the decision to be correct by the 3 judges of the 7th Circuit, the full 7th Circuit said the confession was not coerced and the overturned guilty verdict was vacated. This left Brendan's ONLY remaining chance for freedom was to take his case to the Supreme Court where each year the Supreme court has over 8000 case applications but only choose about 80 cases. Brendan's team picked the former US Solicitor General who had the most experience in pleading cases to the Supreme Court to represent him.

This part so far is the most cruel part of what I have seen so far. The State is hell bent on preventing an innocent man to go free even with TWO court decisions, that it had to embark on the ultimate power or weapon on an enbanc 7th Circuit court to incarcerate an innocent kid/man. And the super thin vote of 4-3 is even more painful for the victim's family to bear.

NorthStar · Nov 23, 2018

jadis said:
This part so far is the most cruel part of what I have seen so far. The State is hell bent on preventing an innocent man to go free even with TWO court decisions, that it had to embark on the ultimate power or weapon on an enbanc 7th Circuit court to incarcerate an innocent kid/man. And the super thin vote of 4-3 is even more painful for the victim's family to bear.

I agree; post number 7 from Steve is to the point.
• https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...ux-october-19-2018-netflix.26364/#post-537181

jadis · Nov 24, 2018

This has been one of the most hard to digest documentaries I have ever seen. Knowing all the new evidences that were withheld during the jury trial, the many times the Brady law was violated, and the lack of tech experts for the defense at that time makes one very angry and frustrated. And knowing how the entire government hierarchy, justice system and law enforcement tag-teamed out to badger and butcher 2 hapless victims is a mind bursting thing. Imo, without this eye opening series, the accused who are in jail now stands zero chance of getting any freedom. But with this, perhaps it is a few percent above zero. KZ's odds to win is very small. On the BrD case, hearing the voices of the 2 women judges who voted in favor of Dassey's release while they explain their votes was very inspiring as they easily sniffed the foul odor of the manner the confession was done to a 16 year old boy. But the other judge who dissented from these 2 simply stuck with the hard edge of the law, terse and without any emotion.

NorthStar · Nov 24, 2018

Without the two women documentary directors, Steven and Brendan are roasted for life.
It is because of these two young women that Kathleen Zellner recently joined in.
It is good information to learn more about these two filmmakers.

Steven was highly motivated and wrote several times to Kathleen, and when she joined in they became friends. And when you are friend with Kathleen Zellner and that you are in jail for life for a crime that you did not commit, there is only one door left...the freedom door.
Steven will walk as a free man eventually, 100%

And Brendan should not be forgotten; one man @ a time...Brendan's time will come too.
Actually Brendan was just that close to walk free; what happened is flabbergastering.
It shows how stubborn the prosecution wanted to win @ any price, even if wrong.
There is a system of high corruption in place in this case, in my deep opinion.
To fail is not an option, and if Brendan would have been released (he was so so close), the price of justice would have fell in the entire prosecution team, which would have made it a complete failure...a non-option. That in itself is pure incompetence, a disgrace, a total fiasco of our justice system @ work right here.

I am 100% convinced that Steven will be exonerated. And I want to see the same for Brendan.
You don't need to be a superior court judge or a rocket scientist to see that the way he was interrogated was totally dysfunctional from the career people performing those interrogations.
It is simply unbelievable and inconceivable on how the judges accepted those gross deviations from professional detectives and experts; they are less pros and experts than a Disney Marvel Mickey mouse comic book movie.

This is all taking so much time, time that is unjust pain for Steven and Brendan.
The damage is done, now is the time for freedom, for justice, for what's right.

The balance of fairness, of justice for peace is weighted by the level of lives saved versus lives lost. I could go very deep philosophically and realistically here, but best to remain firm and grounded with our case. December 20 is the next step for Kathleen, legal formality.

jadis · Nov 24, 2018

I would think that the reason why the State AG was hell-bent on appealing the case en banc is because once Brendan is set free, the case against Steven falls, and Steven will be set free, and they will have NOBODY in jail for a gruesome murder.

And I was wondering why the mother of Brendan did not prevent him from 'confessing' to the police. They could just have invoked their right to remain silent in that room.

Steve Williams · Nov 24, 2018

And I was wondering why the mother of Brendan did not prevent him from 'confessing' to the police. They could just have invoked their right to remain silent in that room.

IIRC she thought his dumbass first lawyer was present for the interview. The only one more incompetent that Kratz is Brendan's first attorney who was nothing more than an incompetent idiot

NorthStar · Nov 24, 2018

I don't know how to put it better than what Steve just did.

jadis · Nov 24, 2018

Steve Williams said:
IIRC she thought his dumbass first lawyer was present for the interview. The only one more incompetent that Kratz is Brendan's first attorney who was nothing more than an incompetent idiot

*shaking my head* - sigh....

jadis · Nov 24, 2018

I'm now watching Part 1, and through the first 3 episodes I wanted to stop watching each time I see those hell-bent and conniving police officers, DA, and prosecutors talk. It was as if they KNEW and presumed Avery as guilty of the assault via his past records and personality. They are practicing the motto of guilty until proven innocent. I don't know if they even know any law or constitution, of even basic rights anymore. I've heard of bad cops, but bad DAs? And later on, bad SG. What a disgrace. And I agree with you Steve, WI will never be in my East Coast list. Not that it was remotely even, good thing I am not a fan of the Milwaukee Bucks.

jadis · Nov 26, 2018

Sheriff Peterson: "It would be a lot easier to eliminate Steve than to frame Steve."

Interviewer: "What do you mean by eliminate?"

Sheriff Peterson: "...if we wanted him killed, it would have been much easier just to kill him."

I thought these lines are from a movie script. With the coerced confession and all these kinds of talks, why even go through a trial? These cops are so 'capable'...

And Judge Willis excludes the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department from any involvement in the upcoming trial.

Wow.

NorthStar · Nov 26, 2018

Here's a to-the-point short article, The Most Garbage People In “Making A Murderer,” Ranked In Order Of Their Loathsomeness, by a smart young lady, Wendy Stokes, from August 11, 2018, about the "professionalism" of some (eleven) main key players in Making a Murderer case.

I would have to agree with her, 100%

Documentary: Making a Murderer - Part Deux | October 19, 2018 - Netflix

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