Can one find realism in box speakers that cost less than $150K after experiencing dynamics of horns and horn-type speakers?

caesar · May 25, 2019

ddk said:
I've been looking at this thread with amusement $150k a lot of money and for that you better get a pair of speakers that does it all and will last you a lifetime. Personally even at $15k the speaker better sound natural and lifelike otherwise why bother?

david

That's an excellent point. Even the $7,000 magnepan sound more natural to me than any box speaker.

But magazines like Stereophile and TAS push Wilson and Magico on the public as the BEST. But all one has to do is attend an audio show, and hear for themselves how limited the box speaker designs are.

Folsom · May 25, 2019

I'm not sure about Magnapans, but Martin Logans have a very consistent timbre sheen. I'm waiting to hear a planar that seemed to differentiate some.

A LOT of people's metrics of good are perfectly filled by Wilson & Magico. They listen for different things.

Al M. · May 26, 2019

caesar said:
That's an excellent point. Even the $7,000 magnepan sound more natural to me than any box speaker.

Now you're just trolling, Caesar.

morricab · May 26, 2019

Al M. said:
Now you're just trolling, Caesar.

No, I don’t think he is because in many ways I would agree with him. I dumped box speakers a long time ago and the first stop was Planarsville. I stayed there for more than a decade (big planars are wonderful for classical and jazz) before dipping briefly back into boxes (realizing again they miss too much realism) before rediscovering horns.

bonzo75 · May 26, 2019

Folsom said:
A LOT of people's metrics of good are perfectly filled by Wilson & Magico. They listen for different things.

Usually they lack experience with horns so they look for different things. Start a thread where Wilson Magico owners list their SETs horns speaker experiences. Will be a very short thread

KeithR · May 26, 2019

bonzo75 said:
Usually they lack experience with horns so they look for different things. Start a thread where Wilson Magico owners list their SETs horns speaker experiences. Will be a very short thread

Perhaps not so simple as horns and planars don't work aesthetically in a lot of living environments and most audiophiles don't have dedicated rooms.

Rhapsody · May 26, 2019

I posted this in another thread, but it's pertinent here....

Variations on Sunday morning-

The first two videos are the same recordings streaming Qobuz as yesterday's videos but with the Ongaku replacing the AVM electronics.

The 3rd video is the Studer 812>>>Ongkau>>>>Roma

The 4th video is the AF1P >>>Ongaku >>>>Roma

RogerD · May 26, 2019

No speaker is perfect but a good “box” speaker is very capable of throwing a wide dispersed soundstage with a excellent center phantom image. By far it system dependent not just the speakers. The total image is from behind the speaker plane were the microphones were placed as it should be.It is possible for the room to disappear as do the speakers do on most minimally mic’d classical and jazz recordings.
As long as the speaker is coherent and images well a speaker is capable of performing well,like I said it is system dependent.

Al M. · May 26, 2019

morricab said:
No, I don’t think he is because in many ways I would agree with him. I dumped box speakers a long time ago and the first stop was Planarsville. I stayed there for more than a decade (big planars are wonderful for classical and jazz) before dipping briefly back into boxes (realizing again they miss too much realism) before rediscovering horns.

This just shows how different audiophiles hear things very differently. No wonder they cannot agree on anything.

bonzo75 · May 26, 2019

Al M. said:
This just shows how different audiophiles hear things very differently.

This assumes they have heard the same things

microstrip · May 26, 2019

bonzo75 said:
Usually they lack experience with horns so they look for different things. Start a thread where Wilson Magico owners list their SETs horns speaker experiences. Will be a very short thread

Surely it will be a short thread. Wilson and Magico onwers have better to do than feeding childish disputes on mine is better than yours. But I would risk they feel great when they become the focus of the attention of the horn speaker community ...

bonzo75 · May 26, 2019

microstrip said:
Surely it will be a short thread. Wilson and Magico onwers have better to do than feeding childish disputes on mine is better than yours. But I would risk they feel great when they become the focus of the attention of the horn speaker community ...

As always you purposefully misquoted. I just said they should list their experience. No foodie wants to quarrel with burger king and McD fanatics so don't worry

morricab · May 26, 2019

Al M. said:
This just shows how different audiophiles hear things very differently. No wonder they cannot agree on anything.

It actually shows nothing of the sort.

Al M. · May 26, 2019

bonzo75 said:
This assumes they have heard the same things

Every side tends to assume they know better, and more.

Anyway, different audiophiles also sometimes experience the sound of the same live concert differently.

bonzo75 · May 26, 2019

Al M. said:
Every side tends to assume they know better, and more.

Anyway, different audiophiles also sometimes experience the sound of the same live concert differently.

box speakers are quite easy to listen to. They are everywhere, better distributed, and better displayed in shows. Horns, especially in the US are difficult. So instead of turning this into a who knows more contest, simply accept realities. Horn lovers start listening to boxes, before they discover horns

ddk · May 26, 2019

caesar said:
That's an excellent point. Even the $7,000 magnepan sound more natural to me than any box speaker.

But magazines like Stereophile and TAS push Wilson and Magico on the public as the BEST. But all one has to do is attend an audio show, and hear for themselves how limited the box speaker designs are.

That wasn't my point Caesar

. There are some excellent sounding box speakers that are far better than most of the modern horn systems I've heard. My point is that $150k is really a ton of money for a speaker system irrespective of design and even at 1/10th of that amount one should be able to get a great sounding box speaker without having to make too many compromises.

Panels are a different thing, I'm over them! I spent many years loving Soundlabs & Apogees but at this point in time I don't want anything that inefficient. Reason is I simply haven't found any tube electronics that sound good and can actually drive the panels properly and I'm not going back to solid state.

david

Bobvin · May 26, 2019

Indeed Bonzo, I heard Klipsch Cornerhons in the 70s, never was exposed to any horns in the Pacific NW where I’ve lived for most of my life. Not until I visited RMAF a couple years back did I hear Avantgarde and thought it a shame I had not been exposed — I liked what I heard. Now that I have heard Diesis my expectations of what to expect from speakers has changed. That is not to say my Alexia in my current rig are not immensely pleasurable.

KeithR · May 26, 2019

Al M. said:
Every side tends to assume they know better, and more.

Anyway, different audiophiles also sometimes experience the sound of the same live concert differently.

You didn’t know SET/horns always wins?

microstrip · May 26, 2019

bonzo75 said:
box speakers are quite easy to listen to. They are everywhere, better distributed, and better displayed in shows. Horns, especially in the US are difficult. So instead of turning this into a who knows more contest, simply accept realities. Horn lovers start listening to boxes, before they discover horns

The golden rule of unobtainium promotion - people do not love it because they were never exposed to it, they would surely love if they listened.

But you have a point - in my experience most of the time horns are very poorly displayed at shows and box speakers are just poorly displayed, although we have some exceptions. Why such different behavior?

Folsom · May 26, 2019

I haven’t heard horns sound good in person except a live concert using some (they where not round). How is it possible for horns to sound bad at shows, but they’re the best? Why can’t someone make them sound good at a show?

Can one find realism in box speakers that cost less than $150K after experiencing dynamics of horns and horn-type speakers?

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