My Apogee Journey

thazeldean

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2013
40
61
923
Way back in 1991, I heard my first pair of Apogees at a Hi Fi store in Melbourne. In 1992, my brother was stationed in the US and he purchased a pair of Apogee Centaur Majors for me. He bought them back with him, following his posting in 1994. At the time they were $12,000 in Australia but $3,000 US so this was the only way I could afford them at the time. I still have the Centaurs as the rear channel in the surround sound theater system.

In 2011, I decided I would upgrade the Centaurs. I flew to NSW and spent time at Bill McLean's listening to Magnepan 3.6's and then to Audio Connection where I listened to Martin Logan CLX's. I settled on the CLX's and was extremely happy with the sound, but one day I noticed that the speakers were starting to fall apart, with the crossover box beginning to separate from the rest of the speaker. Martin Logan replaced these speakers under warranty and have addressed this issue in the new ones.

While this was happening, a pair of Apogee Diva's came up for sale in Australia, so I purchased them sight unseen. Unfortunately they were not in a good state and I was forced to look at my options. I sent them to Graz for an assessment and the report back was far from encouraging. I has some aged Jarrah hardwood that I wanted to be used for the fronts but Graz convinced me that it was a bad idea as it would compromise the sound. He said that he could come up with a Diva design, that incorporated the Jarrah wood and would surpass that speaker in all areas of performance. This was the start of a three year journey, visits to his home where the build was taking shape, many emails, swearing's of secrecy, friendships made, illnesses and accidents to us both at different times, listening sessions, input into crossover values etc. etc. and the wait.

I have to say that during this whole process, Graz has been the consummate professional, at no stage has he skimped on any parts costs and his build quality would put many car manufacturers to shame. His attention to detail and attitude to tolerances would have to be second to none and I have nothing but praise for the work and effort that he has put into these speakers. I have attached images so that you can see the finished product which is currently the only pair in the world.



Unfortunately with the current pandemic, I am locked at home with these amazing speakers. DSC_1886.JPG DSC_1891.JPG DSC_1895.JPG
 

Attachments

  • DSC_1891.JPG
    DSC_1891.JPG
    412.5 KB · Views: 23
  • DSC_1895.JPG
    DSC_1895.JPG
    479.2 KB · Views: 20

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,620
13,639
2,710
London
Nice. What are the amps you are using
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,620
13,639
2,710
London
Hey Bonzo75
The power amps are the Ayon Audio Orthos XS with KT150 tubes.

Interesting, I always wanted to try these on apogees so bought them and sent them to user211 who owns duettas. For me I prefer high current SS amps on apogees, but if Graz refurbished that diva I am sure you have one of the best speakers around
 
  • Like
Reactions: jeff1225 and gian60

Big Dog RJ

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,251
482
1,155
Melbourne
G'day big T! Is in da house!

Well done matey! It's about time. I had mentioned this to Bonz before, but now you've got the pics up, absolutely superb! I do have a tremendous amount of patience but three years!!! I think you're the chosen one!

Will be up there for a listen once this crazy virus leaves mother earth and goes after an alien planet.

I'm sure the Class A output on the Ayons will be marvelous! I can already imagine the sound but to a certain extent... when I had Diva' s driven by CJ's top of the line Prem8a monoblocks partnered with the ART preamp, legendary sound!

It's certainly wonderful to see these legends alive again through the hard dedicated work of Graz. Only a handfulof people have heard the Divas in a proper set up, and with the right amplification they're outstanding!

Although my dream speakers have been achieved, which are the CLX's, as a second pair to own just for rainy days, or virus days... I will embark on a pair of Duetta Sigs refurbed by Graz. He's got some very nice projects going and one in particular caught my attention, it was truly unique.

Obviously there are certain areas that Stats excell in and certain areas that full range ribbons excell in. Already having one of the finest stats, it would be marvelous to have a smaller Apogee just to complement the two without going overboard in finances...

There's another top line series Graz creates, which I believe is referred to as the Definitive series, goes for over 140 grand a pair, I maybe wrong but something like that.

Do you happen to know anything about this Definitive ribbon panel that Graz produces? His website is very simple, and pretty much basic. I guess he doesn't have the time to market it properly since he's busy rebuilding Apogees!

Allow plenty of time for the caps in the crossovers and top end stuff to run-in properly, it will get better and better each day. Let us know your findings along the process.

Superb stuff T, have a good one maaate!
Cheers to Apogee, the legend lives!
RJ
 
  • Like
Reactions: bonzo75

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,423
2,516
1,448
Hey Bonzo75
The power amps are the Ayon Audio Orthos XS with KT150 tubes.
Fantastic story and system! Are those JL Gothams in the corners as well?
 
Last edited:

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,185
13,611
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
LL21, those subwoofer boxes look like they have three drivers, so I don't think they could be JL Audio Gothams.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,423
2,516
1,448
Hey Ron,

Actually, I should have been more clear...I was referring to the original post...where as you can see in Post #1, in the corners are high gloss, fully grilled units that appear to be curved subs...so I am guessing JL Gothams. (I am NOT referring to the Apogees for sale in Post #7 which, as you say, have subs next to them which have 3 smaller cones).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron Resnick

cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,356
1,346
1,730
Pleasanton, CA
That's an good deal if FRs are in good shape. I would want to hear them with challenging material, or, they could just be shipped off for refurb at the refurb guys and they would still wind up a good deal for basically new FR speakers.
 

Zero000

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,985
1,140
478
There's another member getting some Duettas done to basically the same spec as mine.

The Divas above though are in another league WRT build quality. Way, way, way above mine. I would easily expect them to better a Full Range refurbishment that simply changed the ribbons/clamps and maybe improved the crossovers.

It's all about how far you are prepared to take them and the amount of money you are prepared to commit. If you want the absolute best go directly to Graz.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alrainbow

Big Dog RJ

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,251
482
1,155
Melbourne
That's the truth and nothing but the truth!
The refurbs done by G-man (Graz) are second to none. A fair amount of time is taken but I guess that's part of the passionate driving force, is making these panels fully re-furbed at their best, using the highest quality parts and materials to sound perfect, before being released...
Everything has flaws and nothing is perfect but to have the least amount of flaws and more positives is the challenge.

Ref: to AudioGirl on the full range, yes they are great in every way of the term "full range" but they do require some hefty power and current. Back them, during their hey day I remember auditioming a pair driven by Jeff Rowland amplifiers. It was a remarkable experience and one that we enjoyed for a limited time, simply because then I audioned the Diva's, and that ended up in our personal reference system for many years.

Although the Jeff Rowland monoblocks did a great job on both the Apo FR's & Diva's, we had CJ's top of the line Premier 8A monoblocks, that combination with the Diva's and CJ's ART pre-amplifier was in different dimension! So we kept it! Many systems came in and went, bought and sold on customer orders but none of them could match the CJ & Diva combination. The mighty premier 8A's were never over-stressed, rather just cruising along...

If you were to get these Apo FR's, for what it's worth just get them checked out. It's always good to know they are working optimally. An additional refurb down the line is no harm, things get only better.
Cheers mate, rj
 

jeff1225

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2012
3,013
3,265
1,410
51
A pair of Apogee full range speakers for sale at


Has anyone here had the opportunity to listen to the Apogee full range speakers? They are impressive looking!
$9K, that's one hell of a bargain. Who's driving up to Santa Barbara?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alrainbow

Zero000

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,985
1,140
478
$9K, that's one hell of a bargain. Who's driving up to Santa Barbara?
If they really are OK it's not bad.

There's one really simple way to check out any Apogee ribbon is OK. Run his on them at 85-90DB and listen for any tone that is impure. Just move the slider up and down, slowly from 20Hz to the upper limit of the bass panel range for that model. That's the expensive bit to fix and the most likely bit to go wrong.

This is far more telling than listening to music through them.

Do it for the rest of the range as a confidence check but do it SLOW.


Anyone should try this on their on speakers for resonance issues no matter what you have. But you may not like what you find!
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,620
13,639
2,710
London
$9K, that's one hell of a bargain. Who's driving up to Santa Barbara?

That's not a bargain unless they have been restored by Rich murry. Some of these old ones can be in pretty bad shape and buyer will run additional costs sending them to Rich for fixing where it might make sense to get a rebuilt new one straight from him
 

Zero000

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,985
1,140
478
That's not a bargain unless they have been restored by Rich murry. Some of these old ones can be in pretty bad shape and buyer will run additional costs sending them to Rich for fixing where it might make sense to get a rebuilt new one straight from him
The simple answer is you don't know the history of the speaker, Ked. Who knows what's been done to them.

The best way is to use the tool as I have said. It's the only way to escape any BS and find out if they work alright. In which case $9K is OK but nonetheless you may be living on borrowed time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: christoph

Zero000

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,985
1,140
478
I want to say two more things.

1) With the frequent generator start at 1KHz at 85DB. You may find this intolerable pretty quickly so cover your ears and you will still hear impurities in tone if they are there.

2) $9K is a lot for a speaker that old with a damaged bass ribbon. What you really want is a really knackered pair for restoration, as the magnet arrays and magnet supports will almost always be OK, though they may need precision re-alignment. That's the heart of the speaker. That said there aren't many pairs of FRs around. So it is a tough one. If it got through the test I'd probably offer $6K or 7K max if I couldn't find a completely knackered pair and live with them til they fail, then get them sorted properly by spending a lot on them i.e. much more than 7K.

Just saying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: christoph

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,247
1,422
450
Agree on doing the sweep , but 85 db is pretty loud for 1K and arnt those Speakers typically 78db sensitivity , i would suggest 80db which is pretty loud enough and do the sweep..
 
  • Like
Reactions: christoph

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,247
1,422
450
The price is hard to comment on i typically see these selling much higher on the rare moment they do come up for sale , if they are a working Pr you cant beat them at thst price ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: christoph

christoph

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2015
4,674
4,071
825
Principality of Liechtenstein
The price is hard to comment on i typically see these selling much higher on the rare moment they do come up for sale , if they are a working Pr you cant beat them at thst price ...
If they are in the original state, then Justin is correct that you live on borrowed time because all fullrange Dipole Apogees (except Studio Grand and Studio Ribbon Array) WILL start to develop the dreaded BUZZ sooner or later and then there is an rather expensive rebuild mandatory :oops:
But then again a completely rebuilt FullRange can be had around the price of a pair of Wilson Audio Sabrinas or the Magico S1 :rolleyes:

On the other side, FR's turn up so extremely rarely and this exact pair seems to be working order, one could consider this pair as investment for the future and enjoy them as long as they don't buzz and then have them nicely overhauled to one's aesthetic (and sonic) taste :cool:
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing