Is this voodoo or science?

ack

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May 6, 2010
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Tasos, I thought you were an Isodamp man? Did you compare Isodamp to the Spec? If so, can you describe differences?

Marc, take a look upthread, I linked to a post of mine that shows the entire solution. The Spec+ is one part of it, Isodamp is another. Basically, the Spec alone worked wonders, the Isodamp took it to another level. The final layer is a very thin and sticky sorbothane (which I actually don't mind in thin versions) to tie it all to the platter.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Tasos, willdo. I must have missed the Spec reference. That's all described on yr system thread? So Spec plus Isodamp and thin sorbothane, bonded to the platter. Sounds ingenious.

Any thoughts on Herbies Audio Labs Way Excellent 11 tt mat? Sorry to go OT.
 
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ack

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Barry

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I've been using the SPEC AP-UDI analog disc sheet turntable mat for a couple of years now on my TW Raven Anniversary turntable. I can't see how anyone wouldn't like it, but YMMV. Good tone color and dynamics, not overdamped or underdamped. You may, or may not, like it with a record weight depending on what you're using. The SPEC mat is not heavy, but you have to get used to changing records because it may very slightly overhang the platter. No particular static or dirt issues more than normal.

First saw a review of it on Jeff's Place ( PF), then Part-Time Audiophile. I sold the TW mat which cost quite a bit more.

Bough mine from Dave for 300USD at Old Forge Studio in CT, USA.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Barry, no go w them re non US sale. Actually cheaper on Amazon.Jp...I'll take a punt thru them. This, plus a handful of Herbies Audio Labs tube dampers, will be my "Covid austerity" treat to myself Lol.
 

Stacore

Industry Expert
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Sometimes I wonder with how much no_knowledge this business runs.

This is indeed a v good question - how to re-introduce solid knowledge into High End in place of marketing
and bling-bling. Using this example, I'm sure the noise components in the TT bearings have been once thoroughly studied and identified but then it all got lost and now individual people rediscover it.
On a more philosophical note, this cycle of discovering - forgetting - rediscovering - ...
haunts more areas of human intellectual activity, i.e. science.

Cheers,
 
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Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Ok folks, it's been well into a few months since having this Disc Mat from Spec, and now I'm having a major issue!

Apart from the superb improvements in sound reproduction from LP's, there's one major problem that I simply cannot get rid of and that's Static! Damn static is all over this disc mat, and following happens to a very negative effect:

1. When changing sides, I get up walk across a carpet, then onto a small area of floor tiles between another carpet where the gear rests on... stop playback by switching off the motor on the Rega speed controller (obviously lifting the arm first!) then lift the LP and "pop!" The static hits the cartridge, picks up this unwanted pop and shuts off the preamp!

2. The LEDs are on in the preamp but the tubes are off. Then hit the power button either on the preamp or the mute button on the remote, and the preamp comes back to life with a thunderous bang!!!! No good at all, obviously since the monoblocks are still powered on.

3. This phenomenon started happening just as we got into winter, I didn't have a static issue when I first got the Spec mat. It's very dry and I can feel the static in my fingers like sparks going haywire... each time I handle the LP off the disc mat, it sends off a pop towards the preamp shutting it down, there's no way of avoiding it.

As a result I reverted back to the original felt mat supplied by Rega and the upgraded carbon fibre mat supplied as well, no issues of static here whatsoever!

So now what? I'm thinking of all sorts of things, even tried cleaning the LP each time before and after play, lifting it in one straight motion off the disc mat, cleaning and placing down, nothing seems to work.

Onto the experts and more knowledgeable people here, what should I do, any suggestions?

One thing for sure is the other mats are no where close to the Spec's quality but due to this issue, nonetheless I guess I'm still enjoying the music even on these other mats. So back to square one for now. Need to find a way to avoid this static...

Would appreciate any suggestions or advice.
Best, RJ
 

Big Dog RJ

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G'day maties,
Trust all are keeping well and everyone's enjoying those fine tunes.

With the apparent static problems I was having with this Spec disc mat, I managed to get two items from Furutech. One is the D-stat III gadget and the other a fine antistatic brush. Both these do a remarkable job of getting rid of static. However, there's still an issue with it especially when lifting off the LP. So each time this is done, prior to taking off the LP, I'd have to run the D-stat machine first to avoid a major preamp shut down...

All this was good until it started to get annoying, with each change of sides I would have to use the D-stat, well it was getting silly.

So now I've reverted back to the recommended carbon fibre mat that doesn't cause any static issues whatsoever. So once again I'm enjoying those fine tunes on LP.
Of course the tonality, depth and sharpness has changed a bit but it's not in a bad way, rather quite different to what the Spec aluminium disc mat does. I also found with the carbon fibre mat, the depth in soundstage is still very much there and the tonality sounds more natural. Perhaps this is more of a psychological thing, I'm not sure.
Whatever it's doing, is doing quite well. So might as well just enjoy those fine tunes!

If anyone else has a different solution in using the Spec without static issues, please do let me know.
Cheers, RJ
 

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Attn: Ack, Spirit of music, Barry, Don, Bruce, Kach and others out there who know more about the Spec disc mat, can any of you provide any good advice on my static issues, apart from what's already been discussed of course...?

Although I've listed the Spec mat for sale, I'm really wanting to keep it, as what it does is remarkable! Just the other day I swapped from the carbon fibre mat to the Spec, and the performance is a significant improvement, as I had experienced before. However, this time I was extra cautious about the static and used the D-stat III gadget before lifting off the LP to change sides. So no major static pop for now but running the D-stat all the time is definitely annoying and time consuming. Although it takes approx 8-15secs it does add up...

There has to be another way round this. No one has come across this particular issue where the static charge is so significant that it trips off the preamp, shutting down the tube section. All other LEDs are on, except the tubes, which is basically powered off. Power up the tubes by pressing the power button on mute button off, and the tubes power back on with a thunderous pop!!! Definitely not good, obviously because the monoblocks are on.

Just checking if any of you have come across this kind of unusual behaviour, and what are the solutions if any.

Cheers, much appreciated
RJ
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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Where I live static is a constant battle. RH is often just a few percent and I swear scratching my nose can be shocking. :)

I know nothing about the Spec mat. Is the TT platter grounded? And not usually recommended, but have you tried putting the carbon fiber mat under the Spec mat?

There are antistatic coatings and sprays you could apply to the (bottom, presumably) of the Spec mat that might help. Or might eat the mat for all I know...

Static solutions off hand that might help are to use a humidifier in the room or pick up one those home air ionizer gadgets. We use ionizers at work that are little units, essentially silent, and generate a small airflow to de-staticize some key workbenches. They can also be found as air purifiers. A millennia or so ago I had a small ionizer at home to blow at my TT in winter so I wasn't having to stand over it with my ZeroStat pumping constantly.

Popping at turn-on sounds vexing; I wonder if the muting circuit is working rightly, or maybe there is some DC bias that is not being controlled. I can think of a few in-line solutions but most require building a little something. If the output is RCA, you could try an inline attenuator to see if it helps the popping. May not be a permanent solution but might help point to the problem cause. The attenuator would provide a DC path to ground to drain off any DC offset while the preamp is muted.

HTH - Don
 

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Thanks for your reply Don.

I did try the Spec mat along with the Carbon fibre mat, not much of a difference. However, there's another small issue and that is when two mats are placed together, the level of the LP placed on top is raised... this then requires adjustment at the tone arm, something I really don't want to do.

Then again, I was wondering if this is really an issue to begin with? Is it OK if the LP is slightly raised? Do I actually need to adjust the arm or not and can I just keep it as is?

No, the TT platter is not grounded. It's a triple layered glass, something that Rega perfected on the planar 8, and comes with the Carbon Fibre mat that I'm using atm, with no issues - zero static. Very easy and convenient to use.

The CJ preamp is fine, working perfectly, there's no DC bias or anything. The loud pop does not happen whenever the TT is activated, speed controller power supply switched on/off or when the phonostage is powered on, all of that is perfectly silent. No pops or noises whatsoever.

The loud thunderous pop only takes place when I have to power up the preamp, after it has shut down due to the static discharge emanating from the Spec mat whenever I lift off the LP from the platter. It's first a low level pop due to the tubes section of the pre shutting down. No tunes can be played simply because it's pretty much powered off... then when I turn the preamp back on, this loud thunderous pop happens simply because the monoblocks are powered on. So obviously not the right thing to do, power up the preamp whiles both power amplifiers are on, extremely bad sequence.

This happens even after the preamp has been muted. The static charge generated goes right through... shutting the preamp down. Like I said, no one has ever experienced such a phenomenon. I must be the chosen one!

Btw, my audiophile reference recordings store that I always buy my LP's from, just notified me today that they have taken delivery of a new high grade rubber mat. The chap says that I should try it and it made an improvement to his TT rig. He's using a Woodpecker Firebird TT with a Sound Smith cartridge and CJ phonostage. Claims this rubber mat is great... don't know for sure until I actually try it. I'm just not too keen atm since now I've got far too many mats!

Any advice on this?
Cheers, RJ
 
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DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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I had friends with Rega TTs and tried a few back when I was using a TT. Nice players.

Raising the record level will change the vertical tracking angle (VTA) and can definitely change the sound. If the felt under the Spec mat stops the pops and causes no other detriments I would adjust the VTA and/or raise the tonearm (which amounts to the same thing) to compensate. My last tonearm allowed VTA adjustment without having to change anything else; others may require shims, but I suspect most modern tonearms allow you to adjust VTA to compensate. It can drive you mad, however, if you start considering how some records are thicker than others and so forth.

Tube preamps are almost always AC-coupled, so a big discharge causing it to mute and open its outputs may leave it with a large offset that has to bleed off someplace. That is probably the pop you hear when it unmutes. I had that issue when I had a tube setup; it is/was less common for SS preamps IME. If the mute circuit opens the outputs that is probably what is going on.

There are a bunch of anti static sprays you could try on the mat (backside, I would not spray the record side). If there is no ground point on the platter they might not make much difference. I think I mentioned before I ended up buying an antistatic floor mat and grounding it to the TT stand, and stand to earth ground, with a little "touch plate" high on the stand so I could easily discharge myself before handling the TT.

I probably had a couple dozen mats before I retired my TT many years ago, but only used one or two as the rest were pretty similar in construction and performance. I found a bigger range of sonic change with my physical and emotional state, though it was fairly easy to see (and hear, and measure) how some mats would help reduce rumble and such. Again, without perfectly-centered records and such (easier now than then), other things swamped the impact of the mat. I did vacillate between a felt mat and a soft rubbery mat; I am not sure what was on my TT when I finally packed it up.

At some point all audiophiles have to decide whether to listen to the gear or ignore it and listen to the music. Some never do, and prefer to tweak "forever", but for me that is the path to madness. As I've said before, there are little things that can drive me mad, but it's a short drive.

HTH - Don
 

Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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Thanks for your reply Don.

The Rega's are built such that they have no VTA adjustments, only down force tracking, and a finer adjustment down force using the adjustable slider that can be either pushed in or pulled out accordingly. Roy Gandy is one of those chaps who believe in simplicity, hence all Rega's including the top of the line RP10, don't have any further adjustments nor VTA, no bells & whistles.

Your last bit of advice was most sincere; either listen to the gear or listen to the music...
Since the supplied carbon fibre mat is performing supremely well, and there are no static issues, might as well sit back and enjoy the music!

I could still use the Spec mat during those seasons where static is not much of an issue. So I might as well just keep both.

That settles it then, many thanks for your knowledge and advice. Much appreciated!
Cheers, & big woof'n!!!
RJ
 

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