Living at the Extreme: I bought a Taiko Extreme and then this happened...

Quick update, even though I'm enjoying listening, the comments around burn in and character changes have me intrigued. I've decided to let the Extreme play at all times (with my system on mute) in the interest of helping those caps run up hours. With calls through out the day I have to regularly pause my playing so this could be a win-win.

For context, I'm so so about burn in. I really noticed a change over time with my amp (particularly around the midrange and bass) but not so much with my dac. My amp has some pretty big caps in it and the dac does not so maybe this is where burn in comes into play. So-called objectivists might tell me its all psychoacoustics so who really knows. There seems to be some general consensus that the Extreme really comes into it's own around 500hours and settles into it's stride around 1200hours so I'm eager to test and experience that as well.

So far so good though. I keep coming back to the sound staging - I just feel like everything has been injected with air and the bass is digging deep. I'm not having too many "i've never heard that detail" before moments but there is something unique about how the layering comes through. I want to say it's smoother but that's a loaded term as I'm certainly not lacking dynamics. There is just an excellent body and depth to the music.

I'll have more track detailed and music specific notes to share in the next couple days. Hopefully some notes on the burn in process as well.

Day 3/Day 4 - Part 1:

Due to work I did not have a ton of time to listen but ofcourse the system is playing in the background when I'm not on calls. To that end, nothing particular was standing out - I mentioned in my update yesterday that the space and bass was deff there and that's what I kept coming back to. I do/did, however, feel that the extreme was not revealing it's true character to me. Of course, it's a damn good server out of the box but I wasn't having a mind-melting, system redefining experience.

Again, that is not a knock on the extreme by any means because I've heard so many amazing rigs over the years at all sorts of prices points, my own rig is quite impressive (but there is always room to improve!), and with my CIEMs I've heard pretty much all the subtle details in my tracks. If anything, I was getting a sense that the Extreme was holding back on me. I was experiencing flash of magic that are hard to describe: it was in the way certain words were inflected mid word or how certain consonants were hit with more force than others.

One such track was Juice Wrld's Can't Die. RIP Juice Wrld - the world lost a bright musical talent with his passing and I've been spending quite a bit of time with the first half of his posthumous album "Legends Never Die" which was released just a week or so back but I've already listened to a number of times. Posthumous albums are often dissapointing and have the unfortunate tendency of sounding unfinished, hollow, and a last ditch attempt at turning publicity into press but between this album and Pop Smoke's (another future legend lost too early) "Shoot For the Stars, Aim for the Moon" (which I will discuss in more detail in a future post), I've been pleasantly surprised by the quality and emotional rawness of these albums. As a long time fan of both artists I would say that not only am I happy with the albums but I feel the artists themselves would be happy with them as well.

Back to the track Can't Die. Juice Wrld, for those not familiar, tends to bring a bit of emo flair and singing to trap music. However, his rhyming abilities are top notch (an incredible showcase of this is his 1 hour!! freestyle over classic Eminem beats on Tim Westwood's radio show. Worth youtubing if this is your jam). The track opens with a spacy beat with the classic trap music high hats and rolling 808 bass line. There is a guitar synth which follows the same melancholy but hopeful up-and-down flow towards the edges of the sound stage. The chorus itself:

Sometimes it feels like I can't die, 'cause I never was alive
Every day it feels like someone new dies, hope the news is a lie
This is my version of watching you cry, looking you in your eyes
This is my version of watching you die, took me by surprise

caught my attention immediately. The sharp "c" in "can't" followed by "die" and a subtle breath - this pattern is repeated in "'cause I never was alive" but in a more breathy way because the "'c" is hit softly. This all seems like minutae and detail for the sake of detail but, to me, it adds a beautiful complexity to the music and message. It's ghostly especially with the knowledge that Juice is now gone. On top of the simple rhyme of "alive", "lie", "eyes", "surprise" in a "long preamble"-"short clause" grouping of syllables for 4 straight bars, there is now a very apparent rhyme scheme in the delivery and intonation. Woah...that's cool...and that's new to these ears.

So that's an example of the magic but on a pragmatic sense I was more curious about what's to come as the Extreme opens up. I hit up Emile on whatsapp to learn a bit more about the burn in process. He mentioned that keeping the unit plugged in counts towards the hours for the caps - it doesn't need to be played the whole time. Okay, that's helpful to know and at the time of this writing we're around 93 hours in. I also mentioned to Emile about how I felt the extreme was good but holding back on me and he strongly encouraged me to source a proper usb cable and power cable. I don't want to throw more money in right now with the argument being that my rockna could be bettered with network tweaks and more expensive cables too (though I use a wireworld gold AES cable for it - but if I wanted to move it to usb or something). Anyways,
something clicked, and I remembered I had a wireworld usb cable in my closet. It's not a platinum line, it's a few years old, and as someone who is not a big believer in cables I was skeptical but figured no harm in trying.

Color me impressed...I was easily able to differentiate this usb cable from the simple amazon basics one I had grabbed to get the extreme up and running. The wireworld is on the leaner side but not a huge issue for me because the transparency is insane. The highs are a bit edgy and there could be more body but this is a start - I can always buy a platinum one or try out a sablon now that I know it's responding to USB. I'll throw this in the "audio surprises" column. Can the difference be measured? I don't know...but it doesn't invalidate what I started hearing. Roughly, I'd say more speed, more clarity, more details. To quote the esteemed philosopher Matthew Mcconaughey, "Alright, alright, alright".

Fast forward a few hours, and my gf had gone to bed and my work was done for the day. I should have probably gone to sleep too but I haven't had a late night listening session in a while and I decided to take my opportunity. Late night listening is always really nice as, with the lights off, the brain is really able to recreate the soundstage and there are minimal distractions. In fact the only distraction for me is that bright-as-fuck led on the Torus AVR, pardon my french. Like goddamn, why did they build it with this - I've got to get duct tape or a sharpie to dim that thing. Now things were interesting. I re-listened to Can't Die and there are so many little samples floating around that I was missing. Very intrigued, I decided to listen to some tracks from toronto rapper Tory Lanez who blends a rnb smoothness with rap, dancehall intonations with rugged rhymes. It's been a long week, it's humid and gross (classic NYC summer day), and I want easy listening. Tory also uses a lot of adlibs and vocal samples in his tracks. I cycled through some of my favorite cuts from him: "Luv", "Hillside", "Bal Harbour", "Super Freak", "I Sip". The sheer amount of detail and dynamics being thrown at me is incredible. My brain was being overloaded with detail and, frankly, I was loving every minute of it.

Day 3/Day 4 - Part 2:

On the track Hillside, his opening verse brings that dancehall flavor that he has clearly mastered. With his bars start sharply and then slurring through the middle to end in a soft way but the modulations in volume make it quite attention-catching. "Henny in my hands just to feel, yeah" - the "feel yeah" bit just sounds so unconstrained and is popping out of the speakers with force and the use of autotune (i think) causes the two words to really just flow together and hit a really sharp crescendo. While this is happening in the back you can hear a quiet string synth following the bass line perfectly. "Ridin' through the city in the Bando, yeah" - the way "bando" is enunciated "bahhh-n-doughhh, ye-ha". When Wiz Khalifa's verse begins with a drawn out "Cheeeeeeeeel" the song changes from the dance hall vibes to more hiphop while the beat remains. The part of his verse that really had my brain melting was the layers and layers of adlibs, reverb, repeated vocals, and vocal harmonizing in the background. I don't know how many layers exactly but if I heard one 1-2 layers deep in my CIEMs then I'm hearing 3-4 layers deep on the magicos. Woah. Woah, woah, woah. I like listening through Tory's tracks because on top of being chill music, he's mentioned in a few interviews that he's a microphone afficionado. He owns some pretty rare mics and likes to change up what mics he uses in recording so while his voice is recognizable it's had a lot of variety and the intelligent use of autotune allows for him to really bring out his melodies.

So where do we stand a few days in. Well for one, I'm really surprised at how much detail I had been missing out on. Detail is a funny thing though, once you hear it, it's hard to unhear it and you can _usually_ pick it up in other systems - even a bluetooth speaker sometimes - without much trouble. High end gear makes it easy to hear all the layers with ease which, in my experience, allows the listener to step back from intense focus to hear all the little bits and really take in the musical picture. That's what's important to me here. The little bits and samples I'm hearing aren't detail for the sake of detail but they are adding to musical understanding and enjoyment. These are details I don't ever remember hearing - with focus I could maybe make it out on my CIEMs or the Rockna (i'll have to test both) but the fact that they were making themself readily recognizable with the dull roar of the AC in the room as well is very impressive and I'll chalk that up to the extreme. I need more late night listening sessions.

Looking forward, after seeing @romaz 's informative post and my conversation with Emile, I think I'm going to let me ears adjust to this new cable as the Extreme continues to burn in. As always revelatory detail now may become "too much" in a week or so, so let's see how this goes. In the next day or two, I'm going to take my Soulution powercord off the Rockna NET and put it on the Extreme. It's the only spare cable I have at the moment. I've avoided/put off ordering cables for a while due to logistics, a potential move/an ongoing house hunt keeping me from buying a new rack (which would inform cable lengths and component placement), and a strong case of millenial burnout (I swear it's a thing!). If I hear a good response to the powercord then certainly some Wireworld power cables will be ordered. I've had a great experience with those and until my newer items arrived I had the full loom so I'd like to go back to that and upgrade my ic's in the process. Most likely I'll stay on the copper side of things as I worry the silver might be a bit too much for my system though the AES on the rockna is silver and was working well. This will also help me determine if I hear a greater difference between changing pc's or usb on the Extreme. I'm excited by what I'm hearing and there is a lot more to go.

austinpop said:

No need. Get these, and have your revenge on all those annoying LEDs in your system: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009WT7PYO

Pro tip: don't bother with the less opaque ones that claim 50-80%. This one above, at 80-90% dimming, is the lowest I'd go, especially for the really annoying bright ones.

Click to expand...

Amazing! TY so much. Ordered the black ones to match the black finish on the torus.

Hey there, unfortunately I am out of town for a few days and con ed is installing smart meters in my building. I powered down the extreme and the rest of the system last night and it will be off for the next few days.

I will say, as someone who leaves his system on always, it's really uncomfortable and sad to see it off. Especially with roon increasing my listening frequency as I can just unmute my pre and rap a few buttons on the roon app, I found myself missing music during simple tasks like getting ready for bed or making coffee in the morning. It's times like these that I see how emotionally connected I am to both music and the medium which delivers it to me. I found myself missing my system when playing music over a cell phone speaker as I got ready this morning.

On the bright side, having the class A Kraft turned off during this heatwave is making my AC much more effective. My girlfriend is more than excited about this haha

Back in the city and got the system running. It's been one day since the boxes were all turned on so everything is getting back up to speed. Played alot of music yesterday and the dynamics and details are still standing out to me in a positive way. I still have to vnc into the taiko to transfer some of my music library over from the rockna to see how it does with local files.

However, before I dig into all that, I have a question for those with more experience than me. As I look at USB cables and AC cables, does anyone have reccomendations of max length to use? I'm tempted to avoid moving around boxes and just pay a little extra for a 2-3m USB cable and a 2-3m AC cables. Is this going to be an issue with USB. There is a long backstory that I'm going to avoid but my current wireworld starlight usb cable is about 15ft long and I've never had issues with it. I think it's a solid 2-3ft longer than I need. I've read that 6m is max for usb without degredation.

Generally, a usb cable of that length would be expensive but it's the odd lengths that sell at huge discounts online so it's easy enough to try one. However, if the rec is shorter is better then I'll be looking to move some boxes around. Sablon is certainly top of mind as it has been rec'd repeatedly and the prices are reasonable.

Why am I so interested in trying USB and AC cables vs. earlier posts where I was remiss to indulge that? I'm coming to a realization about the extreme and that I had been thinking about it the wrong way. With the stock cables I did some back and forth testing between the Rockna and Extreme before I powered down my system. I was really really hard pressed to tell the difference. There was subtle differences in stage width and depth and the rockna was just a little less dynamically explosive. With the Rockna dac (wavedream sig se) + Roon, I was able to set up two zones playing with a short lag. Listening 30 secs on the extreme and then quickly flipping the input from USB to AES, the same song would be playing but now it would be streaming form the Rockna server (and because I lagged it, it would be playing the same section). The Rockna aquitted itself very well and really showed why it's such a top tier server. I was hard pressed to tell the difference. On top of being burned in, it's also important to keep in mind that the Rockna is running a wireworld gold AES cable and a Soulution powercord. Maybe you could squeeze out more performance using i2s or even usb from the wavedream net.

With the change of the USB cable, that's when a lot of things started clicking for the Extreme. In my earlier post I mentioned that the highs were a bit edgy, that's gone now and the tonal density is back. My guess is that this has to do with the caps breaking in. This is what I keep coming back to, though. This simple change caused the Extreme to open up. The sheer amount of details and dynamics that are pouring out of my speakers/the music is easily outpacing the Rockna NET. A near-future change of AC cable should hopefully help me determine if AC cable or USB cable is the more important one and from @romaz 's post above, it seems that AC had a bigger impact in his system.

From a distance, this can read as "audiophool buys expensive computer and spends more money on cables to convince himself it's better than his existing expensive computer. bits are bits and somehow a usb cable is going to make everything click". From a distance, this can seem like "moving the goal post". That's not the case at all - this is about scaling. I think while the rockna sounds great, I may have tapped out the performance of that piece. The Extreme started at this level and looks like there is more to go. Maybe this comes down to windows vs. linux or maybe it comes down to differences in powersupply robustness - which, I think the extreme's powersupply would put alot of big buck amps to shame so that's just a different playing field all together. There is also an argument to be made that the extreme may put my system in a position to showcase the diff between the rockna wavedream sig se dac and other dacs (lampi pacific, totaldac come to mind as ones I would like to try)

My current conclusion about the two servers is best described with an analogy to more familiar audio products: the rockna is like a top tier integrated (ch precision i1 or soulution 530 come to mind): incredible performance, incredible measurements, show-stopping sound, as well engineered as it gets. The Extreme is like separates: more stuff but ultimately performs at a higher level. For some the difference between betweern a soulution stack or ch stack and the integrateds may not be worth the price difference or the physical heft/space, etc - and that is a-okay. You can still build a world class rig with the top tier integrateds. However, in my experience, the separates bring more to the table - more power, more finesse, more...everything. I'm hearing a nice chunk of that "more everything" with the Extreme and we'll see what better cables do.

Again, these are just my current thoughts now that I've had some time to listen and, more importantly, some time away from my system to digest my experience. There is still alot more testing, listening, breaking in, configuring, etc to go. I appreciate everyone's patience and suggestions - and as I've said from the outset, my goal is to give an honest experience report and I have no intention of holding back! I also hope to be back with some more of the music focused examples later this week.