Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

spiritofmusic · Aug 3, 2020

Emile, there in a nutshell is the issue. That Genesis album was always a bit thin, but vinyl maintains a texture and palpable mids quality, while not burying detail, that renders it highly listenable and enjoyable, if not as totally immersive as others from the band.

Rush on digital is a total conundrum. On vinyl, that YYZ track is mids/upper bass-centric with some roll off into the treble. You can follow the kick drum with ease.

I think one of my conclusions is that vinyl is way more conducive to sympathetic renderings, even mid-fi stuff on top echelon tts. Top digital is proving highly fussy on mastering choices, and if the engineer is thinking more of Zoomers with ear buds than us, reproduction via the Extreme is gonna be challenging.

bonzo75 · Aug 3, 2020

Taiko Audio said:
They are. A very interesting aspect of the Lampizator Pacific is the volume control option. It makes quite a difference and an interesting "tone control". With the Alieno amplifiers I use either a volume setting of -17 or -18 with the Alieno Pre set to high gain. -17 is brighter, -18 is softer. For these PureDSD recordings there's no doubt -17 is better as -18 removes some of the leading edge / sharpness of wind instruments making them sound softer and less realistic then they should. -18 is better for hot (mainly 16/44.1 or 24/48) recordings. For higher res PCM it's a bit of a toss up / might be down to taste. For the Audionets these are at -12/-13 with the same effect.

Did your Pac work with the 242 with your audionet chain, or with any of the electronics?

christoph · Aug 3, 2020

Taiko Audio said:
@spiritofmusic , just gave those 2 a spin, holy batman sibilance on the Genesis track, it’s just awful here, I don’t see how you could fix that. The Rush track is not as bad as the Genesis but flat and a bit thin, it’s veiled in the midrange while being tipped up at the same time which is somewhat unusual, you would almost think a last minute EQ applied on the complete mix, perhaps they wanted the intro bell like sound effects to pop out more / sound more crystalline?

I absolutely don't see any sense in trying to "fix" "crappy recordings" on a SOTA digital rig. Just accept that those recordings are crap being streamed and listen to them on vinyl if the recordings are better.
If you have better issues than the stream on CD, rip them and be done.
Those examples you like to bring to assess digital are just not relevant because they are inherently "broken". No matter what amount of effort you will unleash on them, they will never sound good.
It's maybe a pity about the music but you have to get over it

wil · Aug 3, 2020

spiritofmusic said:
Howie, that was our consensus, and Barry is working hard at optimising. An audiophile's work is never done...I do hope the world one day will recognise the sacrifices we've made.

If I was to draw an analogy, and Barry was a vinylphile...he's bought a Vyger or AS2000 or AF1, w LT arm or SME3012 or SAT, and a VDH cart, and has hit the G-Spot on great jazz albums...but is still at sea on 70s rock. He still has to dial in that tt setup and cart optimisation to slightly tame fiery upper freqs, while maintaining full flow on the better stuff.

And they always said analog was harder to get right than digital Lol.

I'll have to give a listen to the 70's Rock tracks Barry is trying to take the edge off. All I can say is "good luck." If you figure out how to make poorly mastered 70's Rock digital sound good on Avantgardes, please let me know! I don't think it has anything to do with the Extreme beyond it being more transparent to the recording, just as the AG's are unforgiving to poor recordings.

Taiko Audio · Aug 3, 2020

bonzo75 said:
Did your Pac work with the 242 with your audionet chain, or with any of the electronics?

Yes, works very well, do need the volume control as at higher volume settings it starts to distort. Audionet -12, Alieno -17. The 45 heater setting is useable too, a bit warmer/slower, not bad, but I prefer the dynamics of the 242 heater setting, really dynamic in the upper bass/lower midrange.

Taiko Audio · Aug 3, 2020

wil said:
I'll have to give a listen to the 70's Rock tracks Barry is trying to take the edge off. All I can say is "good luck." If you figure out how to make poorly mastered 70's Rock digital sound good on Avantgardes, please let me know! I don't think it has anything to do with the Extreme beyond it being more transparent to the recording, just as the AG's are unforgiving to poor recordings.

Well this helps:

But it's beyond "bit perfect" fixable.

spiritofmusic · Aug 3, 2020

Yeah, yeah, Christoph. I don't hear anything "inherently broken" on the vinyl, and even first generation CDs of these bands.

bonzo75 · Aug 3, 2020

Taiko Audio said:
Yes, works very well, do need the volume control as at higher volume settings it starts to distort. Audionet -12, Alieno -17. The 45 heater setting is useable too, a bit warmer/slower, not bad, but I prefer the dynamics of the 242 heater setting, really dynamic in the upper bass/lower midrange.

Are you getting a much lower noise floor and grip on each note with the 242 as compared to other valves, and a see through tranparency? Much more drive and low to high rise? If not, it might be working properly.

christoph · Aug 3, 2020

spiritofmusic said:
Yeah, yeah, Christoph. I don't hear anything "inherently broken" on the vinyl, and even first generation CDs of these bands.

There you have the solution

Listen to those albums on vinyl or first gen CDs (maybe even ripped

) and the almost limitless plethora of good enough sounding digital via stream.
Qobuz IMHO sounds better than Tidal

nonesup · Aug 3, 2020

Blue58 said:
Hi Wil, we have very similar systems and perhaps the earlier AG Duos just sound a little bit less forgiving of source material than XDs.. Agree that jazz can be ecstatic, try the Prince Lasha, Congo Call track or Don Rendell, Blue Mosque, both very nice. To listen to the tipped up sound try the Genesis, One for the Vine, via Qobuz you’ll hear what we’re hearing.

“If the system had Startech SPF modules in it u didn't come close to hearing the Extreme.....
As well as ps for FMC's, dac used, etc........and pointing to the Extreme for the tipped up frequency balance, what's with that???“

Hi Kingsrule, yes I have the Startech FMC/SPF with Sablon Ethernet into the Extreme and was waiting for burn in to finish before looking at swapping the modules out. However 80% of my listening is via internal storage so not a high priority for me. Both Startech and router have PHSR4 LPSs/Ghent DC/FurPC with the view to update to Taiko switch in the future.
I also think changing the SR blue fuse in the Aqua Dac to an Orange fuse may help. Any More reports of fuse changes in the Extreme as it all went quiet after the initial chat about Brimars.?

I don’t think Marc was pointing the finger at the Extreme, only pointing out the Uber resolution that I now have to work with and ‘rebalance’ the system according to my preferences.

Cheers
Blue58

In my opinion if you think that when playing local files, SPFs don't matter, you make a mistake.

Taiko Audio · Aug 3, 2020

bonzo75 said:
Are you getting a much lower noise floor and grip on each note with the 242 as compared to other valves, and a see through tranparency? Much more drive and low to high rise? If not, it might be working properly.

Only briefly tried Elrog 300B which had a nice colourful midrange and a more sophisticated top end but no comparison on upper bass impact/slam and dynamics. The 242s also sounded much more neutral to me with the 300B seemingly adding colour to the midrange which, although “gourgeous”, shouldn’t be there and diminishes the realism of the performance imho. Did not consider the 242s to be more transparant but the Pacific was just about 2 weeks old at that time. Also tried different rectifiers, Tak 274, KR SE, but this Pacific just “works” with the EML 274 / KR 242s.

Blue58 · Aug 3, 2020

nonesup said:
In my opinion if you think that when playing local files, SPFs don't matter, you make a mistake.

Hi Nonesup, I fully understand what you’re saying and I have some Finisar on their way. As usual, everything matters.
cheers
blue58

nonesup · Aug 3, 2020

I'll even say something else. If with the yellow LC-LC fiber cable that you can buy from Amazon, my favorite SPF was the Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL, with 5m cable length, a few days ago I received a 5m Corning Clear Blue. The sound with this cable and at this length is much more detailed, so much so that it is perhaps somewhat brilliant and I am currently listening to this cable with Planet Tech. Therefore, it is not only that SPF sounds better in our system, but what a combination. SPF cable sounds better. Sorry I understand that this complicates everything, but it is what I have heard.

Kingsrule · Aug 3, 2020

The yellow fiber cable is Corning......possibly Corning has different fiber ranges?

asiufy · Aug 3, 2020

Taiko Audio said:
@spiritofmusic , just gave those 2 a spin, holy batman sibilance on the Genesis track, it’s just awful here, I don’t see how you could fix that. The Rush track is not as bad as the Genesis but flat and a bit thin, it’s veiled in the midrange while being tipped up at the same time which is somewhat unusual, you would almost think a last minute EQ applied on the complete mix, perhaps they wanted the intro bell like sound effects to pop out more / sound more crystalline?

Emile,

Apologies if I intrude on this thread, but Genesis is my favorite band ever, and if I may interject...

All the Genesis albums were REMIXED from multi-tracks a few years ago, to this disastrous result. Either the engineer or the band can't hear anything above 8k at this point probably, as all the albums have an extremely aggressive top end, and are compressed beyond belief too, so any and all subtlety is gone. Clearly these do NOT represent how these albums sound like, as they are far, far from what this music sounded like originally.

I don't know what was Marc's point in playing these clearly well-known terrible versions of generally OK sounding recordings. I mean, the Genesis stuff is obviously not Steely Dan, audiophile-grade material, but it isn't that far off from the usual mainstream 70s rock production quality, which was generally quite acceptable.

He just needs to do his research, locate a good sounding CD (*not* these remixes), rip the damn thing to AIFF/WAV/FLAC and carry on a USB stick, if he wants to listen at his friend's place. Better yet, source a few different versions of the same Genesis album, and use the Extreme to compare. It will likely be quite helpful.

auricgoldfinger · Aug 3, 2020

Kingsrule said:
The yellow fiber cable is Corning......possibly Corning has different fiber ranges?

https://www.fiberoptics4sale.com/collections/corning

Taiko Audio · Aug 4, 2020

@asiufy Thank you very much for chiming in.

@spiritofmusic Does this clear things up for you?

spiritofmusic · Aug 4, 2020

Sure Emile. A cautionary tale on the downsides of remasters.

spiritofmusic · Aug 4, 2020

Emile, from now on I'll leave Barry to play me stuff he knows sounds great on the Extreme. Catalog/golden age material that hasn't been remastered to purgatory, like the Prince Lasha and Pink Floyd we chose, or new stuff that has sympathetic sonics, like that 2020 Youssef Dayes track.

I had NO idea remasters could be quite so poor.

Taiko Audio · Aug 4, 2020

spiritofmusic said:
Emile, from now on I'll leave Barry to play me stuff he knows sounds great on the Extreme. Catalog/golden age material that hasn't been remastered to purgatory, like the Prince Lasha and Pink Floyd we chose, or new stuff that has sympathetic sonics, like that 2020 Youssef Dayes track.

I had NO idea remasters could be quite so poor.

You can also just rip your ok sounding CDs like Alex suggested.

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