KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

Folsom

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I and a couple of my friends here have been consistently disappointed with Pass electronics. I haven’t heard any of the first watt stuff though.

I think a lot of the designs are good but honestly I can't listen to stereos using some of the caps he likes.
 

dan31

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Perhaps Benchmark AHB-2 stereo amp and maybe a pair as monos. I say this as they can be adjusted for input gain and the have tightly regulated power supplies. Not a lot of heat. Worth a shot. Perhaps send a note to John at Benchmark and ask about your setup first.

The amps come in black for that stealth look with the YG’s.
 
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Folsom

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Perhaps Benchmark AHB-2 stereo amp and maybe a pair as monos. I say this as they can be adjusted for input gain and the have tightly regulated power supplies. Not a lot of heat. Worth a shot. Perhaps send a note to John at Benchmark and ask about your setup first.

They are actually very easy to listen to.
 
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tobiasrankin

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Pass X350.8:

Background on trying this amp was that I wanted to complete the "musical SS" trio of Pass, Rowland, and Luxman. I've always had profound respect for Nelson and in my Zu tenure, tried SIT amps which sounded very, very good. In fact, if I ever go back to Zu a XA25 would be my first amp decision (and Sean Casey's favorite amp right now).

I considered the X and XA.8 series, but thought the latter would overheat my room and at the power I require, be too expensive ($30k+). Also, I've noted several contrarians on the XA.8 series who actually feel the X is better. So I narrowed the Pass decision down to the 260.8 monos and the 350.8. I had read on another forum a member having trouble with the monos on 88db speakers, so I ultimately thought the 350.8 was the best amp to try. YG speakers seem to love power, so why not. I learned later on that the 260.8 is the "jazz" voicing while the 350.8 was the "rock" one - as I listen more to rock that seemed to be the route. Also, for those looking at the XA series - the 100.8 sounds "rock" vs the rest of the series.

I turned the amp on for 5 days, with only a short session at 35 hours that wasn't successful. After 5 days, I really started to examine the amp/speaker relationship. We tried multiple preamps (tube and SS MF) and cables (XLR and RCA). We settled on the LTA tube preamp with single ended cables (it doesn't have balanced outs). Overall the Pass was disappointing and, honestly, didn't get better over the two weeks I had it running in. The amp had a real "stilted" presentation that seemed to slam the leading edge with no decay - to the point it was harsh to my ears. Piano really didn't sound like a piano to me, no matter what I tried. Surprisingly though, the soundstage wasn't overly big either and I always felt the amp exhibited a flatness quality compared with other amps. This was codified in an overall thin timbre where most instruments and vocals lacked body. As one listener here commented, the female voice lacked the vocal chord pipe. I will say the amp isn't cold, was actually warmer than expected, and had a characteristic to the bass I really enjoyed. It hits hard, but with a bit of roundness that I prefer.

One last comment - this amp runs quite warm. Huge heat sinks just emanate heat into the room similarly to Luxman Class A in my experience. It was just on the cusp of being uncomfortable in my 24'x16' room in a hot climate. All-in-all, the Pass X.8 just wasn't synergistic with the YGs and I feel Nelson's best work remains in the lower-powered spectrum.

Weird completely opposite findings I had pairing with ns5000. I found Pass to be incredibly holographic, spacious, detailed and natural sounding. Sound seemed to be focused with amazing imaging but also diffuse and almost 'in my head'. I absolutely love the 350.8 with my NS5000. My frame of reference is a bryston 4bsst though. I have not tried super elite amps. Not sure how good ampzilla is. I should also note my 350.8 was a demo unit so likely insane amount of hours on it.

I think the gryphon colosseum, boulder 2160 or coda no 16 would be both great options to try. Dual M900U would probably work extremely well also.
 
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KeithR

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I totally agree. My first question to Keith when he bought them was “what amps were on the speakers when you fell in love with them?”

I’ve made similar mistakes and I think we almost all have along the way.

Keith, I didn’t mean my above response to sound snarky. I apologize if that’s how you or anybody else took it.

I've got thick skin :) If you search for my YG auditions early in this thread, you'll note my concern that it was on $200k of Dag M400/ARC Ref10/whiz bang cabling in a mondo room and that I almost didn't purchase them as the path is narrower for a lower efficient speaker to succeed.

Truth be told, I have found the right combo in the LTA and Ampzilla - its synergistic and by far the best combo I've tried. I'm done. I find it amusing that people are recommending super amps with exotic casework while in effect, a good Bongiorno circuit with excellent transformer in a stamped steel chassis has outperformed the usual names. All for $5500, new, street.

I do have a soft spot for the Rowland on several kinds of music - it's a very good amp and would be my second choice.

As I mentioned to a local audiophile this week, I honestly expected the Ampzilla to eventually be outclassed. It wasn't. If someone wants to bring a Dag S250 over, I'd love to hear one. I've been very honest with myself and others during the entire process, taking my time and not rushing to conclusions - happy to admit flaws when they pop up.
 
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andromedaaudio

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find it amusing that people are recommending super amps with exotic casework while in effect, a good Bongiorno circuit with excellent transformer in a stamped steel chassis has outperformed the usual names. All for $5500, new, street.
Fair enough keith .
Now you ve figured that out
You are now ready for some top tube amps.
Although its gonna be hard to find them driving those YG s properly .
 

andromedaaudio

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I did the same thing basically .
First i built my own transistor power amp .
Works still fine 20 watt class AB , 10 watts class A.
Meridian 557 .
Levinson 29 .
Graaf GM 200 tubes runs very hot .
Levinson 431
Classe amp
Krell evo 400 monos
Boulder 1060.
Zanden 7000 300 B tubes not enough power .

I found the differences in solidstate not really worth the money .
Exept may be the boulder and that in a large part due to buildquality.
Bass control of the boulder was the best of all the SS i have had.
It really did add something down under
 
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GMKF

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I do have a soft spot for the Rowland on several kinds of music - it's a very good amp and would be my second choice.

As I mentioned to a local audiophile this week, I honestly expected the Ampzilla to eventually be outclassed. It wasn't. If someone wants to bring a Dag S250 over, I'd love to hear one. I've been very honest with myself and others during the entire process, taking my time and not rushing to conclusions - happy to admit flaws when they pop up.

I have followed this thread since it's beginning and congratulate you on your achievements.
I do like your no-nonsense approach. Which cables do you use ?
 
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KeithR

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Weird completely opposite findings I had pairing with ns5000. I found Pass to be incredibly holographic, spacious, detailed and natural sounding. Sound seemed to be focused with amazing imaging but also diffuse and almost 'in my head'. I absolutely love the 350.8 with my NS5000. My frame of reference is a bryston 4bsst though. I have not tried super elite amps. Not sure how good ampzilla is. I should also note my 350.8 was a demo unit so likely insane amount of hours on it.

I think the gryphon colosseum, boulder 2160 or coda no 16 would be both great options to try. Dual M900U would probably work extremely well also.

I’m only reporting on amps with YG (with possible applicability to other sealed box speakers) - I don’t pretend to know about amp universality. I didn’t find much break in on the Pass.
 

KeithR

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I have followed this thread since it's beginning and congratulate you on your achievements.
I do like your no-nonsense approach. Which cables do you use ?

I use non quad Mogami ICs and Zu speaker cables. The Ampzilla have captive power cords.
 
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rbbert

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Fair enough keith .
Now you ve figured that out
You are now ready for some top tube amps.
Although its gonna be hard to find them driving those YG s properly .
YG's frequently demo'ed with Tenor amps at shows
 
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morricab

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I think a lot of the designs are good but honestly I can't listen to stereos using some of the caps he likes.
You think it’s the caps? Really?
 
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Folsom

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You think it’s the caps? Really?

I know what those caps sound like, there is no thinking. It doesn't matter what the design is, you will get their character in some form. Only once ever have I been able to use them without causing a sound I didn't like, when they were the primary power source caps; and that was on a lazy lofi battery thing I made for a friend off a cheap chinese DAC on eBay when I was in college and they wanted a stereo for parties.
 

morricab

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You think it’s the caps? Really?
Last suggestion because I know the Ampzillas pretty well and it’s hard to believe you haven’t found better (or it is a sad testament to the so called progress of SS in general).
Graaf GM 400. It’s SS from a company that basically only did tubes before (their OTLs were phenomenal) and at 15k euro is pretty reasonable. Might be hard to find but maybe you could buy direct from the factory.
The other suggestion of Tenor hybrids is also a good one.
 

bonzo75

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The gamut monos were pretty good and used price is not that high
 

morricab

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I know what those caps sound like, there is no thinking. It doesn't matter what the design is, you will get their character in some form. Only once ever have I been able to use them without causing a sound I didn't like, when they were the primary power source caps; and that was on a lazy lofi battery thing I made for a friend off a cheap chinese DAC on eBay when I was in college and they wanted a stereo for parties.
What caps are these then to be avoided?
 

Folsom

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What caps are these then to be avoided?

Panasonic FC's. They're useful in some places, but not as main supply of power. A lot of people like them, but they're awful and people just are attracted to the initial sound that is different. A lot of people have recapped vintage gear with them and hated the results...
 

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