Outstanding Sound Improvement with Videos before-after/ VYDA Cables

Vienna said:

Gentlemen please calm down.

First of all please note that my income is generated (thankfully) from an industry totally different, Hi-Fi, as for the most here , is only an expensive hobby.

please further note that I don’t have any interest of any kind in relation with VYDA and until few days ago I didn’t even know these cables or Enrico. Gianluigi introduced his cables.

@bazelio may confirm that until the moment I got to demo VYDA, I had at my place for trial Audioquest Dragons and I was writing to him that they were killer cables which had also made a big improvement. I am expecting also to try Zenwave cables. @DaveC will confirm this too.

if Audioquest were better than Vyda, this thread would be about the Dragons (I still believe that they are very good but Vyda worked better for me)

I was very surprised from the sound improvement I got from Vyda and I was excited with their quality too, and thought that I had to share it here, I am not making money out of this. I am still spending for this hobby as the most here.

if I were one of the disbelievers and Since they are completely free to demo, I would get a pair and I would report back with my findings.

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Wow, interesting thread!

I will be sending Vienna a couple of IC cables to try out. Unfortunately, I don't have 2 of my top end silver PCs with Shuko plugs available as I am a relatively small business based in a country that uses different AC plugs. He needs two PCs for one amplifier btw, the Gryphon amps need two PCs... It's too bad as my cables have been preferred over AQ Dragon many times, and I'd love to see how they stack up against other cables.

I would say that I don't find the differences Vienna is reporting to be all that unusual. Cables can make pretty huge differences, especially in systems that have very neutral and revealing components and clean power supply. IMO, it's far too often that cables will be an "Uber" system's bottleneck. I think the reason for this is cables are not well understood so they can vary quite a bit, and it's not unusual that cables are the last thing to be optimized so it's common for mediocre cables to be replaced with excellent cables, and then you can get these big differences.

So, I have found in the context of a modern, top end HiFi system that cables are a key component and can make a difference between an ordinary system that might image well, and do some things well, but if you want a immersive, 3-D soundstage you can't ignore cables, they are SO important for preserving the information on the recording that allows that kind of 3-D "you are there" presentation that I believe is the real driver of listener preference. At least that is the primary goal of my own system and the gear I have built for it, which is everything except for the source.

As far as videos, I think they can show differences, as shown by Vienna. Take them for what they are worth, I plan on making vids of my own speaker when it's ready and of course it doesn't substitute for a live audition, but I think it's interesting. I think people should be aware of limitations, such as a vid w/ phone vs a pro-level mic and digital recorder, obviously the two are going to show many differences due to the recording gear when used on the exact same system. It might be interesting to actually make a vid of the exact same system using different recording gear and/or techniques.

Enrico Datti,owner of VYDA,is my friend since many years and i introduced him to Vienna.
I started to buy hifi since 1973,so i have many good friends and Enrico is one of this.Is wondurful,nice and very very good man,serious and honest,like other friends i have like Montagna,Emiliano of Kuro and others.

Enrico Datti,was always collaborator of Vyger company near since Vyger was born,and they had idea to do an analog system as better as possible.
They also developed a very top phono amp Krimon 1,dual mono with external battery power supply and a very special phono cable.
Enrico founded VYDA alone some years ago,but always cooperate with Vyger and started to do this cables line
Phono and interconnect cables are with conductor very pure silver solid core,with all natural material dielectric,while power and speaker cables are one silver/copper alloy that prefer this to pure silver.
Connector are made in Vyger company and have quality similar to Bocchino top of the line.

Vyda is also developing a phono Krimon 2,like the old but with some improvement,with a new very big and heavy power supply,a line preamp mono with a very big power supply and a new turntable,very special with Vyger tonearm.

I am testing these cables and i like a lot,will do a small report next days and i suggest my friend Vienne to try.
Vienna tried and was shocked for the quality and opened this thread very excited.
That's all

Why criticized the Vienna Videos?

We did many videos,some my videos to listen Opus and Lambda and Coralstone difference,many very good difference from Tang to listen difference of his cartridges,why cannot listen video for cables?

Congratulations Vienna. It will be fun to hear the videos with increasing number of VYDA cables and power cords. Perhaps you should use one video as a reference for the whole process and then add others for overall impressions. I will be curious to see if the effect is amplified with each additional cable, or if the sound simply becomes more complete. Which cartridge do you plan to use?

gian60 said:

Why criticized the Vienna Videos?

We did many videos,some my videos to listen Opus and Lambda and Coralstone difference,many very good difference from Tang to listen difference of his cartridges,why cannot listen video for cables?

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Well, I tried to explain the differences between "cartridge videos" and "cable videos" in previous posts ... I will try to answer your question more directly.

Cartridge differences are technically very large and of a nature that can be expect to show in videos. Technically cables introduce extremely small differences, only perceived because of the extraordinary power of our ear/brain system to perceive stereo differences. The process of recording using an hand held cellphone introduces very large differences between each recording that will introduce artifacts that will mask any difference existing between cables.Even worse they can create differences that will reverse the perceived cable effect.

FIY cellphones have a "built-in automatic compressor/expander function that is built into the audio system of the video camera. This is actually A FEATURE designed to help avoid distortion in your audio". (quoting from https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/376543/Sound+up+&+down+when+recording+video too lazy to type in my words, sorry .
And yes, in some particular conditions depending on music flow people can find that recording is more dynamic than the original - the automatic gain control can make it!

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/376543/Sound+up+&+down+when+recording+video

Other problems are frequency response, variations of frequency response with small movements, and digital artifacts due to sampling rates and hardware limitations.

Still quoting from the referred site:

"Professional video cameras don’t have compressor/expanders built into their audio recording systems, or at the very least it can be switched off and on at will. The pro camera would then basically have a “volume” control to set the camera input sensitivity to record a signal that is way too loud. If there are soft moments in the video sound, you would fix it in video editing software during the “post production” phase of your project by raising up those portions manually when editing.

But the iPhone video camera is not a professional video camera, it uses this audio compression/expansion system to try it’s best to be all things to all people in almost all situations with minimal thought involved. Most other video apps are the same, you can’t turn off the automatic compression/expansion system.

Making this feature switchable would be a problem for most people. They would forget wether it’s off or on and wonder why their sound is ruined when recording something with varying loudness. "

The only solution (and you’re not gonna like this) is to have a separate audio recorder with a recording resolution of 16bit @ 48kHz with it’s input adjusted for the varying sound, then sync the sound to the video sound in “post production” afterwards within video editing software."

Hi micro, but the point is, do we accept the poster's opinion if his videos are representative of the difference or not? What you say is valid, if we also agree that when people post cable differences, we should tell them please stick to posting only cartridge differences (or such components)

Alternately, if Vienna says guys, these are the videos, but they are not representative of what I am hearing here, I will accept that. Personally I have not posted many videos that I thought were not representative of what I heard in a particular room.

bonzo75 said:

Many readers interpret posts quite differently from what the writer intends, there is nothing you can do about that. Except for not post or never describe. Every reader has an "interpretation responsibility" and many misuse it

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Readers can have different interpretations of what they read. To communicate effectively and minimize misinterpretation, I suggest the responsbility lies first with the author to be clear and straightforward with what they write. Don't blame your reader if you are misunderstood.

microstrip said:

FIY cellphones have a "built-in automatic compressor/expander function that is built into the audio system of the video camera. This is actually A FEATURE designed to help avoid distortion in your audio". (quoting from https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/376543/Sound+up+&+down+when+recording+video too lazy to type in my words, sorry .
And yes, in some particular conditions depending on music flow people can find that recording is more dynamic than the original - the automatic gain control can make it!

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While this theoretically can be the case, in my experience videos always show limited dynamics, rather than expanded ones. None of the horn system videos that I have heard sounded very dynamic *) (except one done with a professional microphone, but even there dynamics were not extraordinary). Also, I clearly heard severe dynamic compression on Peter A.'s video of Holst's Uranus (from The Planets). I know that with confidence since I have heard that piece also in person played on his system -- much more dynamic.

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*) which leads me to the conclusion that, when some people wax enthusiastically about the dynamics on some of those videos, their standards of reproduction must be rather low

Al M. said:

Also, I clearly heard severe dynamic compression on Peter A.'s video of Holst's Uranus (from The Planets). I know that with confidence since I have heard that piece also in person played on his system -- much more dynamic

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Isn't the issue about comparison wrt videos between video A and video B? I think we all (most) agree to non-equivalence between in room listening and its reproduction through a phone recording.

If videos A and B are made with the same phone and listener Fred uses the same playback to hear both, then each is compromised, but in the same way. Is that comparison problematic?

Al M. said:

While this theoretically can be the case, in my experience videos always show limited dynamics, rather than expanded ones. None of the horn system videos that I have heard sounded very dynamic *) (except one done with a professional microphone, but even there dynamics were not extraordinary). Also, I clearly heard severe dynamic compression on Peter A.'s video of Holst's Uranus (from The Planets). I know that with confidence since I have heard that piece also in person played on his system -- much more dynamic.

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*) which leads me to the conclusion that, when some people wax enthusiastically about the dynamics on some of those videos, their standards of reproduction must be rather low

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Yes, compression is the predominant effect in videos. AGC (automatic gain control) was fitted since long in cheap handheld cassette recorders and is now part of the computer microphone input. No one will take serious room measurements with a computer microphone - it is why we have to tipically use at less an USB soundcard with proper volume control.

tima said:

Isn't the issue about comparison wrt videos between video A and video B? I think we all (most) agree to non-equivalence between in room listening and its reproduction through a phone recording.

If videos A and B are made with the same phone and listener Fred uses the same playback to hear both, then each is compromised, but in the same way. Is that comparison problematic?

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No, that relative comparison, e.g., between components in the same system under identical recording conditions, may have some value.

However, my post was a reply to technical peculiarities of video recording that Francisco rightfully pointed out, and which affect absolute sound quality from videos.

tima said:

Isn't the issue about comparison wrt videos between video A and video B? I think we all (most) agree to non-equivalence between in room listening and its reproduction through a phone recording.

If videos A and B are made with the same phone and listener Fred uses the same playback to hear both, then each is compromised, but in the same way. Is that comparison problematic?

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Tim,

Again - the same phone does not warrant equivalent conditions. For example, if we do not start the recording at exactly the same point of music we will have different levels. It was my first objection to video recordings long ago - videos had sound level differences of up to 7 dB. Listeners are not able to set sound level with precision by ear - it was studied since long.

Long ago dealers that used the dubious technique of turning the level up of around one dB in comparisons to favor equipment with high margins were considered cheaters and dishonest as , it is known that such difference can seriously influence direct immediate A/B comparisons - but less in long time listening. Even when setting levels for my own fast comparisons I need instruments - otherwise I risk setting the level of my pre-biased preference a little louder!

Why are some people making movies to share with proper equipment on tripods and controlled levels? Because they do not know how to make movies with the mobile phones?

tima said:

Imo, individual threads such as this should not be used to debate whether videos have value or what value they have or how to use them. Every single product thread with a video does not need that debate.

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I respectively disagree. The video was used by the OP as a basis and comparative standard to judge the sonic differences between cables. IMHO, video sonic quality should not be used at all, as a defensible methodology, to substantiate anything.

I used to play with cable quite a bit. When I changed a cable, I consistently got the highest difference with the first new cable adding into the system. Additional ones adding on to the system after had maybe 10% effect of the first one. Additional ones were to me now more of a in-there-for-peace-of-mind happened to have the $ to go all the way. It will be interesting to hear if the second, third, fourth Vienna put in has an effect closer to the first.

One of my objectives with the WBF video recording of audio systems project is to offer audiophiles a way to record their systems and to demonstrate for us the sonic differences of different components.

Using professional, flat frequency response, matched monaural microphones in a consistent recording technique an audiophile will be able to have me record his system using different components and make recordings changing only one component. I happily will record a track of a member system as is, and then record that same track with only a single component changed.

Of course it won't be perfect, but standardizing more elements of the recording process will only help us understand what we are listening to, and differences we think we are hearing.

While I will have the interviewer and the interviewee Sennheiser AVX wireless lapel microphones set on auto level, I will manually set the recording levels of the Earthworks microphones I use to record the audio systems.

microstrip said:

Again - the same phone does not warrant equivalent conditions. For example, if we do not start the recording at exactly the same point of music we will have different levels.

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But a general comparison between videos that last at least a few minutes each does not require exact synchronization to get a sense of differences between them - assuming of course that the recordings largely cover the same passage of music . We're not comparing video A at mark 1:08 with video B at mark 1:08. If you want (pedantically) equivalent conditions the odds of that approach zero simply because the world is different by the time video B is made.

microstrip said:

Long ago dealers that used the dubious technique of turning the level up of around one dB in comparisons to favor equipment with high margins were considered cheaters and dishonest as , it is known that such difference can seriously influence direct immediate A/B comparisons - but less in long time listening. Even when setting levels for my own fast comparisons I need instruments - otherwise I risk setting the level of my pre-biased preference a little louder!

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Assuming gain is left the same for both videos, that is largely irrelevant to your first paragraph argument based on starting to record at the exact same moment for each video. I assume you don't believe Vienna was trying to be dishonest. I don't.

The only way to judge cables is to listen to them in your system. Other people’s opinion can be a starting point, but that’s all. Do some research, and hopefully you can be satisfied after a few vendors and with a few upgrades.