Zero Distortion: Tango Time

PeterA · Jan 19, 2022

If going ONLY on vocals, not instruments, then I prefer the sound of Ella's voice in 3b. It sounds a bit shouty and thin in 3a through my headphones. The differences between the drums and cymbals and bass are also interesting which changes my opinion on preference.

I would like to hear the Fischer-Diskau again with these two different set ups. Didn't Tang or Bonzo describe that as a kind of male vocal reference in the room?

Can I ask if the SME phono cable is back in the system?

Audiophile Bill · Jan 19, 2022

I prefer Ella on A - sounds more vivid and holographic with presence to me. Using my shitty laptop internal speaker though lol.

bazelio · Jan 19, 2022

There will always be as much variability based on playback system as there will be general preference given a static playback system across all listeners.

Klonk · Jan 19, 2022

bonzo75 said:
And why

I am not very good at expressing my aural impression in audiophile terms, but to me the two seemed somehow more relaxed with horns. I don't like it, when the horns sound metallic. I am not saying, that they sounded metallic in the other videos, but were closer to it. Hope that makes sense.

Scott Naylor · Jan 19, 2022

3B is much better to me because it's evident how entire ensemble is anchored to the underlying beat. Things get a little disjointed comparatively in 3A. Ella's melismas also comply with that steady groove in 3B. I think there's a better sense of how she uses her breath to shape phrases in b as well.

What an amazing musician she was in addition to those magnificent pipes!

audioquest4life · Jan 19, 2022

3b = a little more dynamic and open sounding.
3a = less dynamic, more restrained.

The difference to me sounds like the recording levels are off or the playback volumes are different. Even if they are equal, that is what I am hearing.

PeterA · Jan 19, 2022

I hear a shift in emphasis with the frequencies, and what range sounds more natural toggling between the two videos. If all you care about is the voice on this one recording, then I prefer 3b as the voice sounding more natural. It is too thin and colored in 3a. The high frequencies sound better to me too in 3b with better tone, more wood on rim strike, etc, but they are less extended and emphasized, less splashy/white, so some might prefer 3a. The bass is problematic in both presentations, but less so in 3a. It is less defined and a bit bloated in 3b.

It would be interesting to know if the SUT is going into the MM input? Or are we hearing the SUT vs. no SUT into the MC input? And is the SME phono cable being used before and after the SUT?

The different opinions so far are quite interesting. Might get something similar if we were listening live to the system.

heihei · Jan 19, 2022

Blue58 said:
I do prefer at home listening than a visit to a large venue. I have no qualms listening to classical in a small intimate venue. One particular impressive concert was of Max Richter’s Four Seasons reimagined at St. Jude’s, Hampstead. That I can not replicate at home.

Love that work - had booked to see it performed at Kings Place but COVID etc etc

Ovenmitt · Jan 19, 2022

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say both recordings sound fantastic!

Argonaut · Jan 19, 2022

b … Phrasing and tempo

Tango · Jan 19, 2022

Ovenmitt said:
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say both recordings sound fantastic!

I think both sound great too. It is interesting to see how people pick out every single aspect critically as if there is a particular aspect that is failing. Imo the sound from my input1 using Tele and from mm input4 with we 618b offer just different strengths and flavor. I already described their sound in detail earlier. The videos were recorded to show how the WE 618b influence the sound so that Bill (who requested the videos) and others who might be interested in this super rare 1933 transformers get some idea of its dna. I think this old vintage we gear carries the same sonic appeal to their other equipment like the famous we 300 b made in the 50's.

Tango · Jan 19, 2022

Audiophile Bill said:
I prefer Ella on A - sounds more vivid and holographic with presence to me. Using my shitty laptop internal speaker though lol.

That's how I hear it too using both my shitty Samsung phone speaker and in room listening. You also catch all the videos that played through mm input using we618b.

Tango · Jan 19, 2022

Let me straighten out so that it would not be confusing to hear the influence of we618b. Without comparison you would't hear how it changes sound. My base line is a straight through phono using Tele 12AX7.

Showing vocal:

Here is Ella through we618b.

Here is Ella straight from phono using Tele 12AX7

Showing jazz instruments:

Here is Satin Doll through we618b

Here is Satin Doll straight from phono using Tele 12AX7

Tango · Jan 19, 2022

Here is I Got It Bad through we618b

Here is I Got It Bad straight from phono using Tele 12AX7

I chose FOR DUKE dtd because it is easier to hear differences and it is a common album not difficult to find. Get those albums and play in your system to see how different it is to what you hear in your own system. Then you learn more. If you find something lacking from my video it simply means my system with that gear is inferior to your system in that sonic aspect and fall short of your preference.

bazelio · Jan 19, 2022

Tang, is there an internal SUT on the MC input that goes to a 12AX7, whereas the MM input just bypasses an internal SUT going direct to a 12AX7?

PS I'm only getting sound in the right channel for the last two songs.

bonzo75 · Jan 19, 2022

Tango said:
That's how I hear it too using both my shitty Samsung phone speaker and in room listening. You also catch all the videos that played through mm input using we618b.

What tang means is that all A were played through the WE 618b

tinkerphile · Jan 19, 2022

Blue58 said:
I do prefer at home listening than a visit to a large venue. I have no qualms listening to classical in a small intimate venue. One particular impressive concert was of Max Richter’s Four Seasons reimagined at St. Jude’s, Hampstead. That I can not replicate at home.

In 1977, I saw Joe Pass by himself at Ronnie Scott's. His Gibson and a small amp; that was it, from a table about 30' away. So (compared to home), hearing him at that venue was, umm...eschatological(?).

tinkerphile · Jan 19, 2022

Audiophile Bill said:
Exactly. Not sure if you have been to Munich High end but they regularly show large scale WE systems with sub 1 watt and they effortlessly fill a room of 50+ seats minimum lol.

I've always wondered about such a setup and system in that acoustic environ. Of course, I suppose if I had, I'd become obsessed to the point of the irrational, designing and building a massive room.

bonzo75 · Jan 20, 2022

Grand Cru on Graham Elite, AF3 premium, play Ella Cry me a river @gian60 - the vdh is new and barely 10 hours

Tango · Jan 20, 2022

bonzo75 said:
Grand Cru on Graham Elite, AF3 premium, play Ella Cry me a river @gian60 - the vdh is new and barely 10 hours

I always wonder if I have that much depth behind my speakers how my sound will be like.

Zero Distortion: Tango Time

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