How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

Esoteric-CD.jpg
There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 
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Serious unit dude, pretty sure you're gonna be rocking with that front end!
I hope so. I have a very upgraded Arcam Delta 250 transport now but it has blown two boards, rebuilt twice after another blown event, possibly all due to undersized resistor fuse. My friend now quadrupled the fuse rating and it's working great now but, for how long? So, I'm finally springing for what my dealer and everyone else says is among the best, certainly for the price. That top drawer closes in total darkness for the transport, unlike the dark glass puck used on the Shanling ET3 which looked like a bargain but sounds relatively thin (USB thumbdrive didn't do so well either-same one used with the Horizon/Aurender server/REI amps which was outstanding).
 
I'm ordering a Jay's Audio CD3-MK3 CD transport for my upcoming Poseidon.
I own the cd3mk3 with the Qstab bone clamp highly recommend make sure to give it a lot of time to breakin due to the amount of caps it has in the power supply.It feeds may balanced pacific using a omega aes cable.
 
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I own the cd3mk3 with the Qstab bone clamp highly recommend make sure to give it a lot of time to breakin due to the amount of caps it has in the power supply.It feeds may balanced pacific using a omega aes cable.
I thought that the Qstab bone clamp and the bone & spring assembly were for the CD2 lower model and that the CD3 has improved anti-vibration control and clamp. I intend to use an AES cable instead of my SPDIF cables.
How many hours should I keep it on repeat, 100, 200 or more? Leaving it on for a week would be okay but more than that taxes my patience. Thanks
 
I thought that the Qstab bone clamp and the bone & spring assembly were for the CD2 lower model and that the CD3 has improved anti-vibration control and clamp. I intend to use an AES cable instead of my SPDIF cables.
How many hours should I keep it on repeat, 100, 200 or more? Leaving it on for a week would be okay but more than that taxes my patience. Thanks
just listen to it no spring kit just the bone clamp sounds good right out of the gate impressive transport.looking forward to your thoughts.
 
Listen to it while you're awake, burn it in while you sleep.
I don't want to be possibly disappointed so I will just let it run for 5 days continuously. I've done the same for other components such as CD players with upgraded capacitors. If after 5 days it doesn't sound adequate and satisfying, I'll sell it.

My Poseidon will probably be delivered cold so I will give it the same treatment, five days on for the tubes/capacitors/wiring to burn-in.

My Von Schweikert VR9... had new wiring, amps and tweeters. I had no choice in listening to it while they were breaking-in (literally for drivers) as they weigh 350 lbs. each and had to stay in my listening room as best positioned. They sounded excellent to begin with and just got better in time.

I have patience. I've waited a long time to enable me to fund obtaining equipment of this musical reproduction quality.
 
There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
I guess it depends on the quality of the laser pickup, how clean the signal trace in the transport is, the "stiffness" of the motor and the squareness of the wave of the digital output signal (as measured on an oscilloscope). Hence why converted universal machines are good value option. Those old players are now cheap to acquire vs their original prices (old and out of fashion) but they were expensive and solidly built back in the day, a very cost effective alternative to a top quality dedicated CD transport like a Mephisto, CEC, Esoteric, etc.

The drawback to the old Universals would be that they were all things to all formats. Thus they need a bit of surgery to tap the audio trace from the (earliest)correct resistor site and send a wire directly to a new digital output terminal at the back. (Appropriate schematic diagram for the model is needed) Playback options for SACD, DVD audio, Video, etc can be disabled by disconnecting the internal cables concerned with these option. Then next the digital signal could be further improved by running it through a mini tube circuit to square up the output wave, before running the wire to the newly created digital terminal. NO transformer on the output to kill the wave! Capacitor if needed to get the correct output impedance.

Of course, a top quality transport will likely have all this built in, except for the tube stage most likely....but will cost a lot more (new or used), as 'philes have become a lot more savvy.
 
I guess it depends on the quality of the laser pickup, how clean the signal trace in the transport is, the "stiffness" of the motor and the squareness of the wave of the digital output signal (as measured on an oscilloscope). Hence why converted universal machines are good value option. Those old players are now cheap to acquire vs their original prices (old and out of fashion) but they were expensive and solidly built back in the day, a very cost effective alternative to a top quality dedicated CD transport like a Mephisto, CEC, Esoteric, etc.

The drawback to the old Universals would be that they were all things to all formats. Thus they need a bit of surgery to tap the audio trace from the (earliest)correct resistor site and send a wire directly to a new digital output terminal at the back. (Appropriate schematic diagram for the model is needed) Playback options for SACD, DVD audio, Video, etc can be disabled by disconnecting the internal cables concerned with these option. Then next the digital signal could be further improved by running it through a mini tube circuit to square up the output wave, before running the wire to the newly created digital terminal. NO transformer on the output to kill the wave! Capacitor if needed to get the correct output impedance.

Of course, a top quality transport will likely have all this built in, except for the tube stage most likely....but will cost a lot more (new or used), as 'philes have become a lot more savvy.
I have been using a modified Arcam Delta 250 transport with the famous Philips RM9 transport with DAC other than my COS Engineering D1v. I just upgraded for peanuts to a Shanling ET3 which is a better match but sounded thin with my other two DACs (first time I preferred the COS D1v).

After having experienced the Horizon DAC with my speakers, I await the Poseidon and the Jay's CDT3 Mk3.

All of my friends believe that universal transports are inferior to dedicated CD transports. Many of them prefer CD players, eliminating wiring/transmission errors but they don't have the sound of high end separates (several use a Denon 1500 after retiring Kyocera 410s). I'm showing them what is possible for CD playback versus analog (of which all but one friend has). None of us stream except to hear new music/audition to purchase the LP or CD.

I have a neighbor 3 doors down who is into high end audio and ONLY listens to his server storage of his 3,000 CDs using a Meridian DAC which cost $22K. It still sounds excellent in his system. I give him thumbdrives of only well recorded music from my CD collection (15,500 CDs). He's so picky, he removes Shostakovich 5th Sym. 3rd movement when he listens (and removes parts of performances he considers boring or irritating-it's his choice)!
 
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I have been using a modified Arcam Delta 250 transport with the famous Philips RM9 transport with DAC other than my COS Engineering D1v. I just upgraded for peanuts to a Shanling ET3 which is a better match but sounded thin with my other two DACs (first time I preferred the COS D1v).

After having experienced the Horizon DAC with my speakers, I await the Poseidon and the Jay's CDT3 Mk3.

All of my friends believe that universal transports are inferior to dedicated CD transports. Many of them prefer CD players, eliminating wiring/transmission errors but they don't have the sound of high end separates (several use a Denon 1500 after retiring Kyocera 410s). I'm showing them what is possible for CD playback versus analog (of which all but one friend has). None of us stream except to hear new music/audition to purchase the LP or CD.

I have a neighbor 3 doors down who is into high end audio and ONLY listens to his server storage of his 3,000 CDs using a Meridian DAC which cost $22K. It still sounds excellent in his system. I give him thumbdrives of only well recorded music from my CD collection (15,500 CDs). He's so picky, he removes Shostakovich 5th Sym. 3rd movement when he listens (and removes parts of performances he considers boring or irritating-it's his choice)!
In Stock form, the Uni transport is not good (signal degraded by the rats nest of traces to play back every format plus plenty nasty resistors in the RBCD audio path), but has great bones. Lukasz did many blog on his modification journeys. I am using a modded Denon (3910) myself with the wire soldered at point R278 to newly drilled Spdif terminal. Didn't do the Digital-lamp mod for the final 20% uplift. I made sure to buy a spare laser as they wont be available forever. One bonus after modding this as a transport is that the HDCD function still works, so playback of those CDs get the best of all worlds.

I really dont stream much, but do play CDs plus my terabytes of stored music played back thru Memory Player 32bit device.
I have tons of CDs and probably pick up about 10 a week for free from my local recycling centre. They used to have vinyl, but it was been months since any has been left there.

 
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In Stock form, the Uni transport is not good (signal degraded by the rats nest of traces to play back every format plus plenty nasty resistors in the RBCD audio path), but has great bones. Lukasz did many blog on his modification journeys. I am using a modded Denon (3910) myself with the wire soldered at point R278 to newly drilled Spdif terminal. Didn't do the Digital-lamp mod for the final 20% uplift. I made sure to buy a spare laser as they wont be available forever. One bonus after modding this as a transport is that the HDCD function still works, so playback of those CDs get the best of all worlds.

I really dont stream much, but do play CDs plus my terabytes of stored music played back thru Memory Player 32bit device.
I have tons of CDs and probably pick up about 10 a week for free from my local recycling centre. They used to have vinyl, but it was been months since any has been left there.

I tried half a dozen Denon DVD players as transports. All were too bright in stock condition. I've seen some mods for the 3910 (with tubes yet) and my best friend tried a 3300 (too dark-maybe old caps). We all decided to stick with CD players and transports with dedicated CD drives/design. I don't have tons of CDs but 15,500 is quite a few, half given to me or at nominal cost (I have to cull unwanteds from 7,000).
 
...I dunno, at 15 thousand + CDs you may indeed have tons.
You are correct. I remember when I carried 60 contractor bags filled with 50 to 60 lbs. of CDs in 12/22 down a flight of stairs, across a parking lot and removed them from my car, sorted them and boxed them into 10 X 20 X 6 boxes and then another 12/23 purchase of 3,750 CDs into boxes (four total trips for 7,500 CDs), it was probably 3 tons of CDs. Plus I already had that many at home in Can-Am steel CD drawers and in racks. 6 tons! Comparable 3 ton weight of my 7,000 78s though.
 
I tried half a dozen Denon DVD players as transports. All were too bright in stock condition. I've seen some mods for the 3910 (with tubes yet) and my best friend tried a 3300 (too dark-maybe old caps). We all decided to stick with CD players and transports with dedicated CD drives/design. I don't have tons of CDs but 15,500 is quite a few, half given to me or at nominal cost (I have to cull unwanteds from 7,000).
Yep, stock has the problem of audio degradation from the long traces . Its why you have to tap the earliest point for RBCD audio playback and output the signal from that. All the benefits and none of the downside.

I dont have as many CDs as you, a few thousand or so, but I strip them out of the Jewel cases and store them in CD briefcases that have like 500 plastic sleeves each.
 
Yep, stock has the problem of audio degradation from the long traces . Its why you have to tap the earliest point for RBCD audio playback and output the signal from that. All the benefits and none of the downside.

I dont have as many CDs as you, a few thousand or so, but I strip them out of the Jewel cases and store them in CD briefcases that have like 500 plastic sleeves each.
I did what Todd in Austin said, it will sound good from the start and per the owner's manual, takes 400 hours to break-in. Well after one hour, it sounded fabulous!!! I don't even have my Poseidon yet, using a extremely modified power supply Emotiva XDA 1 DAC (5! Sparkos regulators at $47 each versus maybe 50¢, power & filter caps, other minor parts but has a very nice analog board and is totally balanced, with Acme treated fuse). Three dimensional sound, full bodied, detailed, super dynamic contrasts with my Von Schweikerts. WoW! It doesn't have the smoothest fast forward or reverse but it's okay like many DVD transports I've tried. Otherwise, a beast that looks great in silver. I like machined heavy duty remotes, purpose made for machines rather than combo with too many extraneous multi-purpose buttons or plastic remotes.
 
I did what Todd in Austin said, it will sound good from the start and per the owner's manual, takes 400 hours to break-in. Well after one hour, it sounded fabulous!!! I don't even have my Poseidon yet, using a extremely modified power supply Emotiva XDA 1 DAC (5! Sparkos regulators at $47 each versus maybe 50¢, power & filter caps, other minor parts but has a very nice analog board and is totally balanced, with Acme treated fuse). Three dimensional sound, full bodied, detailed, super dynamic contrasts with my Von Schweikerts. WoW! It doesn't have the smoothest fast forward or reverse but it's okay like many DVD transports I've tried. Otherwise, a beast that looks great in silver. I like machined heavy duty remotes, purpose made for machines rather than combo with too many extraneous multi-purpose buttons or plastic remotes.
Pictures please.
 
Charles one dad, and I have gone back and forth many times on the issue of SQ in Cd's. I had purchases 2 of the early mentioned Project RS2T units and both were returned faulty. (very poor quality control issues) THE MUSIC ROOM was wonderful in dealing with the issues of both.
When I initially replaced my 6000 CDT with the RS2T, I was AMAZED at what I had heard. It was such a shame that those 2 units had to go back. With much urging from Charles, I tried a 3rd RS2T and had the Music Room pre screen prior to shipping. ( I went out on the 3rd limb because of the sound) It has now been in place for over a year with no issues! I use it via AES/EBU, to a Bricasti m1SE Dac along with a LTA LPS rather than the wallwort. Pass X250.8 with a Brand new Pair of Tekton Encore (specialty made #5&6) all just for Rock and Roll. The audiolab 6000 is a wonderful unit and sounds great, BUT, Doesn't even begin to touch the RS2T. If you have the opportunity to listen to one in a good system, with a good master, you will understand. I have to thank Charles One for the push. It has been worth it. Robert TN
 
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Charles one dad, and I have gone back and forth many times on the issue of SQ in Cd's. I had purchases 2 of the early mentioned Project RS2T units and both were returned faulty. (very poor quality control issues) THE MUSIC ROOM was wonderful in dealing with the issues of both.
When I initially replaced my 6000 CDT with the RS2T, I was AMAZED at what I had heard. It was such a shame that those 2 units had to go back. With much urging from Charles, I tried a 3rd RS2T and had the Music Room pre screen prior to shipping. ( I went out on the 3rd limb because of the sound) It has now been in place for over a year with no issues! I use it via AES/EBU, to a Bricasti m1SE Dac along with a LTA LPS rather than the wallwort. Pass X250.8 with a Brand new Pair of Tekton Encore (specialty made #5&6) all just for Rock and Roll. The audiolab 6000 is a wonderful unit and sounds great, BUT, Doesn't even begin to touch the RS2T. If you have the opportunity to listen to one in a good system, with a good master, you will understand. I have to thank Charles One for the push. It has been worth it. Robert TN
I see an advantage of purchasing the RS2T. It is not just smaller but is VERY small and lightweight compared to the Jay's Audio CDt3. So, for some installations/users, it is the alternative. I am grateful to have a solidly built, dependable superb sounding transport for my now 16,300 CDs (box sets from an on-line charity boosted my collection significantly).
 

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