A quick hello, and a view from the outside

Diapason

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2014
325
39
335
Dublin, Ireland
Hi all,

An out-of-the-blue PM about the system that still exists in my profile, although not in my life, has encouraged me back to this forum for the first time in many years, and it has been very enjoyable to lurk once again. Having sold my main system to turn the mancave into a playroom for my daughters in 2017, I have been out of the high-end (or what my wallet considers high-end) ever since, and I'm actually slightly shocked at how much my mindset has changed in that period.

Of course, it's not just personal change, the world continues to move forward too, and while I was already starting to feel like a dinosaur in my latter days in the hobby, the shelves of CDs now seem like a relic from a very distant past. It's odd to think that no matter what musical path I take from here, I'm unlikely to ever go back to the CD days. For starters, on the rare occasions I put a disc in the player, I'm completely distracted by the mechanism noise. Had I really managed to mentally shut that out for so long, or has it got louder from lack of use? Possibly both. More odd than that, the idea of a "collection" of any sort seems archaic now. Virtually all of my listening is Spotify or Qobuz, and a look through the shelves may reflect my tastes at various points of my life, but it doesn't speak to me now. As such, my music listening has simultaneously widened and shallowed. Widened into exploration of so much more new music, but shallowed due to lack of repetition and late-night concentrated listening. Well-loved albums from the past remain well-loved, but only theoretically, as they're not often played. Everything is just that little bit more ephemeral, and sometimes that feels like a shame.

The biggest change, and the one that saddens me most, is the comparative lack of opportunity for large-scale classical music listening. Without the system to do it justice, nor the space to listen to it at reasonable volume in a busy family home, my truest musical love has been utterly neglected. I hadn't really noticed for the first few years, but I'm gradually feeling starved, like an important part of me has been forgotten. That is something I need to find a way to fix, and fix soon.

In terms of audio, having resisted the lure of vinyl all through my own audiophile days, my wife couldn't resist the temptation during Covid. We bought a Rega P3 during one of the early lockdowns with the intention of a return to album listening, as opposed to individual track listening. After a flurry of excitement, the purchase of maybe 50 or 60 albums, and a couple of cartridge upgrades, I have to admit that the vinyl bug has not really bitten. I enjoy many aspects of it, both in terms of ritual and sonics, but to my ears I get better results streaming Qobuz, and the TT has been relatively untouched in recent months. "Better" is a term that applies to me and me only here, I'm sure many doing the same comparison from my seat would lean the other way, but the former major hifi forum concern of digital vs vinyl no longer matters to me now. I stick on whatever takes my fancy and try to listen past the failings of either system, with mixed success. With my current equipment I find it easier to listen past the Bluesound's failings than the Rega's failings. YMMV. Listening past failings is something I've got a little better at, but I don't think you're ever truly cured of audiophilia.

On that note, having tried to leave aside some of the "mania" that follows this hobby (it seems so ridiculous now in many ways: cables, tweaks, moving speakers a couple of mm, putting components on different feet, increasingly unjustifiable sums of money) I now find myself wondering about it all again. Some of the itch is coming back, for no real reason other than missing the chase. That part is not about music, at least not really, and I'm happy enough to admit that to myself and the world now. I'm never going back into the mancave because of the awful sonics in that room, so until I move house there'll be no space for a really serious system. But whereas 5 years ago I thought I knew what a return to the audiophile fold would look like, these days I'm not so sure. I used to love having more and more boxes and components and cables and valves and isolation and sound treatments etc. etc., but these days I'm drawn to simplicity. I just want good sound with a minimum of fuss. Also, with limited funds, I find it increasingly difficult to look genuinely forward in this hobby. I cannot afford, and will never be able to afford, the state of the art, so I am caught between celebrated products from 20 or 30 years ago and mid-level products from now. There may be genuine innovation (especially in digital of course) but it gets harder to see progress across the hobby as a whole, and certainly not at my level of spend. Is trickle-down really working in the audio space? It doesn't really feel like it is.

Still, at least I scratched the vinyl itch. It may still be the medium of choice for many of you, especially at the higher-end, and it may be the physical media that's keeping the whole industry going, but I now know it's not for me. Finally, I can put that one to bed. Probably...
 

Gregm

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2019
530
383
155
France
Welcome back! It sounds like you've embarked on a new, happy (young daughters!), journey and would like to incorporate relics of the previous life :)...
It can be done, and the result can sometimes be astonishingly satisfying!
I had to downgrade my system a few years ago (lost both digital & analogue sources) managing to put together a more modest system nevertheless. Astonishingly enough, the sound is more than satisfactory and I can happily declare that I enjoy many moments of classical musical bliss despite the absence of my Select II and my Simon Yorke -- in fact I don't miss them at all!
In other words I am sure you'll find a way to get back to classical and you'll get the best of both worlds, the old and the new
 
  • Like
Reactions: paolo

Asa

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2012
79
35
923
Really nice post,. I've gone through a similar process. 35 yrs ago, I was totally into it, even reviewed at TAS for a short while. Then had to sell my big rig when I changed careers and had been subsisting on my 2nd system (LS3/5As, AirTight SET amp) until 5 yrs ago when I jumped partially back in (LM 755 spkrs, Wavac monos). But the spkrs had powers supplies themselves, etc., and I just wanted to simplify - sold em 2 yrs ago. Now in a new larger home I thought I'd do a big basement system - thought about Strads, maybe even Sound Labs! Now I'm not quite sure. Its just what you mention - the constant chase, the inflated prices. I'm starting to gauge what I really need. Maybe Elipsas with micro subs...so, like you, I can properly listen to classical.

BTW, how did you like the Elipsa SE's?

Hope to see you stick around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: paolo

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,430
2,517
1,448
Nice to see you back and entirely respect the perspective. For our part, we have always enjoyed the system as a family. Since my teens when it was just a boombox all the way through college, the system has always been a part of life at home...which means it has always been in the living room not in a separate room which I vastly prefer. The music remains on 30+ years later...4-8 hours during the week and 15-20 hours during the weekend. Working late into the evenings, it is still on changing thru the hours as the evening carries on.

The nicest thing is the little one requests movie soundtracks, Bach, Ella & Basie, Hans Zimmer...pulls out CDs and reads them, and then puts them back nicely and perfectly straight. And movies on the big screen are also fun for the whole family. My wife has also kindly said that it IS nice when she particularly wants to hear an album on the system or watch a movie, relative to how else it sounds just about anywhere else. So it then is a nice feature in our home and becomes part of the fabric like some families who might cook together (we sometimes do)...one perspective.
 
  • Like
Reactions: paolo

Diapason

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2014
325
39
335
Dublin, Ireland
Thank you for the welcomes!

I should probably admit that while the big system is gone, I didn't quite empty the tank completely... Most of our listening these days happens in the kitchen, where a nice little system of B&W 685 S2 speakers, Wadia 151 powerdac and Chromecast Audio (remember those?) does a decent enough job, especially for Spotify and Qobuz. Interestingly, even on that system I can clearly hear Qobuz's superiority. The sitting room has some vintage Sonus Faber Signums, a Bluesound Node, my old Wadia player (sitting unused most of the time) and the Rega. I also recently embarked on an amp upgrade for that room which I found very entertaining. I tried a LOT of different options at the few thousand Euro mark, and it was fascinating to hear the wide range of sound signatures across a variety of amps over several months. I know we don't have to convince ourselves here, but the "all amps sound the same" viewpoint was blown out of the water once again during that process. I ended up with a Copland CSA 100, and there's an amp that really should be better known. It suits my listening requirements perfectly: quiet, refined, powerful enough, solid bass, open but smooth. I really really love that amp. Maybe I'll start a thread about it. The problem with that system isn't the system, it's the fact that I live in a 1980s semi-detached house in Dublin, and the walls between ourselves and the neighbours are paper thin. That system could deliver in spades I suspect, but our neighbours are nice people and it's not fair to inflict that on them. When they go on holiday I have a whale of a time! I'm not joking when I say that my next hifi upgrade will be a new house...

As the girls have grown, music has become a larger part in their lives too, so as LL21 suggests, I'm never going back to a "hide yourself away" style solution. The eldest (10) is especially interested, and while her tastes at the moment are understandably dictated by current trends, she also regularly requests Zep, Fleetwood Mac and similar. We're going to see Guns n' Roses together in June for her first ever concert. That should be fun. Anyway, I digress, but the point is that I want the girls to hear it all, to get exposure to everything, and some of it will definitely stick. A mancave is no longer on the cards.

Asa, the Elipsa SE speakers were the hardest things to sell, it was painful to watch them go. I later discovered that they sat in a warehouse for the next 4 years, which pained me even more. If I ever have *proper* space for them, I would be very tempted to get them again. To be honest, even without hearing them you probably have imagined roughly what they sound like, and I think you'd be right. They are big and warm and beautiful. What surprised me is that they also had more resolution than I ever expected. I had Kharmas before (CRM 3.2FE) and I expected the SFs to be a step up in gorgeousness but a step down in resolution. I was half right! Are they 100% tonally accurate? Realistically probably not, but at that point I wanted to step away from the hair-shirt, warts an' all style sound I had previously pursued but that had stopped bringing me joy. I eventually decided that at my level of spend, everything is a compromise, and I'd prefer my compromises to tip in the SF direction than the tipped up direction.

Anyway, it's great to be back reading threads here again, and to see so many familiar names (and attitudes!) Now, I'm back Mike Lavigne's Wadax thread...
 

Asa

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2012
79
35
923
Hi Diap, thanks for the feedback on the SF Elipsa SEs...yeah, exactly what I used to hear. Long time ago now, but the same memories as you. Interesting about the resolution thing versus Karma (white ceramic drivers in those, right?). I hear you. I've had speakers where people say thay aren't laser-like enough, but with some speakers that doesn't matter...the more you listen to them. And even in the same listening session; at first, objectively, some part here or there may be lacking, because you seem to be looking for it, but the longer you listen, and the less your look, the more the beauty of a speaker comes through. My Quads were like that...still miss 'em.

Diap, maybe you can help me a bit here. I've been looking at the Elipsas, and there are the Serblin-era ones, the inverted dome tweeter and the less bling on the wood...and then the Elipsa SEs, beautiful woodwork, worked over crossovers, the Strad tweeter. Did you ever hear both? Or, ever talk to anyone who did? I remember somewhere where someone said that Franco didn't consider the pre-SEs "real SFs...not sure about that, sounded very nice to me. Ever map any of this out before your purchase?

And, BTW....where-oh-where are your SE's now? :)
 

Hi-FiGuy

Member Sponsor
Feb 23, 2015
2,242
763
385
Hi all,

An out-of-the-blue PM about the system that still exists in my profile, although not in my life, has encouraged me back to this forum for the first time in many years, and it has been very enjoyable to lurk once again. Having sold my main system to turn the mancave into a playroom for my daughters in 2017, I have been out of the high-end (or what my wallet considers high-end) ever since, and I'm actually slightly shocked at how much my mindset has changed in that period.

Of course, it's not just personal change, the world continues to move forward too, and while I was already starting to feel like a dinosaur in my latter days in the hobby, the shelves of CDs now seem like a relic from a very distant past. It's odd to think that no matter what musical path I take from here, I'm unlikely to ever go back to the CD days. For starters, on the rare occasions I put a disc in the player, I'm completely distracted by the mechanism noise. Had I really managed to mentally shut that out for so long, or has it got louder from lack of use? Possibly both. More odd than that, the idea of a "collection" of any sort seems archaic now. Virtually all of my listening is Spotify or Qobuz, and a look through the shelves may reflect my tastes at various points of my life, but it doesn't speak to me now. As such, my music listening has simultaneously widened and shallowed. Widened into exploration of so much more new music, but shallowed due to lack of repetition and late-night concentrated listening. Well-loved albums from the past remain well-loved, but only theoretically, as they're not often played. Everything is just that little bit more ephemeral, and sometimes that feels like a shame.

The biggest change, and the one that saddens me most, is the comparative lack of opportunity for large-scale classical music listening. Without the system to do it justice, nor the space to listen to it at reasonable volume in a busy family home, my truest musical love has been utterly neglected. I hadn't really noticed for the first few years, but I'm gradually feeling starved, like an important part of me has been forgotten. That is something I need to find a way to fix, and fix soon.

In terms of audio, having resisted the lure of vinyl all through my own audiophile days, my wife couldn't resist the temptation during Covid. We bought a Rega P3 during one of the early lockdowns with the intention of a return to album listening, as opposed to individual track listening. After a flurry of excitement, the purchase of maybe 50 or 60 albums, and a couple of cartridge upgrades, I have to admit that the vinyl bug has not really bitten. I enjoy many aspects of it, both in terms of ritual and sonics, but to my ears I get better results streaming Qobuz, and the TT has been relatively untouched in recent months. "Better" is a term that applies to me and me only here, I'm sure many doing the same comparison from my seat would lean the other way, but the former major hifi forum concern of digital vs vinyl no longer matters to me now. I stick on whatever takes my fancy and try to listen past the failings of either system, with mixed success. With my current equipment I find it easier to listen past the Bluesound's failings than the Rega's failings. YMMV. Listening past failings is something I've got a little better at, but I don't think you're ever truly cured of audiophilia.

On that note, having tried to leave aside some of the "mania" that follows this hobby (it seems so ridiculous now in many ways: cables, tweaks, moving speakers a couple of mm, putting components on different feet, increasingly unjustifiable sums of money) I now find myself wondering about it all again. Some of the itch is coming back, for no real reason other than missing the chase. That part is not about music, at least not really, and I'm happy enough to admit that to myself and the world now. I'm never going back into the mancave because of the awful sonics in that room, so until I move house there'll be no space for a really serious system. But whereas 5 years ago I thought I knew what a return to the audiophile fold would look like, these days I'm not so sure. I used to love having more and more boxes and components and cables and valves and isolation and sound treatments etc. etc., but these days I'm drawn to simplicity. I just want good sound with a minimum of fuss. Also, with limited funds, I find it increasingly difficult to look genuinely forward in this hobby. I cannot afford, and will never be able to afford, the state of the art, so I am caught between celebrated products from 20 or 30 years ago and mid-level products from now. There may be genuine innovation (especially in digital of course) but it gets harder to see progress across the hobby as a whole, and certainly not at my level of spend. Is trickle-down really working in the audio space? It doesn't really feel like it is.

Still, at least I scratched the vinyl itch. It may still be the medium of choice for many of you, especially at the higher-end, and it may be the physical media that's keeping the whole industry going, but I now know it's not for me. Finally, I can put that one to bed. Probably...
Welcome back!
You and I are 100% on the same page music wise. I often state I am more interested in what I don't have music wise than what I do have sitting on the shelves in my listening room. I am perfectly content putting on my noise canceling headphones and putting on a music choice on spotify, climb on my Cadet mower and let spotify introduce me to new music for the next three to four hours and save stuff for later, more concentrated listening.
My granddaughter will ask me to put on music and I do, does not matter what it is and it makes her happy which in turn make the wife and I happy.
I thought I knew a lot about music, turns out I don't know $hit, but I am learning.
I have 45 years of vinyl collecting that I am starting to lose my attachment too and am surprisingly not bothered by and may be for sale soon. I really enjoy sitting in my listening chair with my laptop and whiling away the time (not getting up every 22 minutes) exploring and building my virtual library.

We all have our journeys that are unto ourselves and those around us, thank you for sharing!
 

Diapason

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2014
325
39
335
Dublin, Ireland
Hi Diap, thanks for the feedback on the SF Elipsa SEs...yeah, exactly what I used to hear. Long time ago now, but the same memories as you. Interesting about the resolution thing versus Karma (white ceramic drivers in those, right?). I hear you. I've had speakers where people say thay aren't laser-like enough, but with some speakers that doesn't matter...the more you listen to them. And even in the same listening session; at first, objectively, some part here or there may be lacking, because you seem to be looking for it, but the longer you listen, and the less your look, the more the beauty of a speaker comes through. My Quads were like that...still miss 'em.

Diap, maybe you can help me a bit here. I've been looking at the Elipsas, and there are the Serblin-era ones, the inverted dome tweeter and the less bling on the wood...and then the Elipsa SEs, beautiful woodwork, worked over crossovers, the Strad tweeter. Did you ever hear both? Or, ever talk to anyone who did? I remember somewhere where someone said that Franco didn't consider the pre-SEs "real SFs...not sure about that, sounded very nice to me. Ever map any of this out before your purchase?

And, BTW....where-oh-where are your SE's now? :)
You're right about the Kharmas with the white ceramic drivers. Their whole thing was speed and clarity (which they delivered) but unless everything was absolutely spot-on up the chain, they could have a "white-ish" kind of sound that didn't always work. Large scale stuff could harden up, sound a bit bleached, that kind of thing. I was forever tinkering with positioning and sound treatments and cables and whatever else to try to get more natural warmth into them. Funny thing was, a friend with identical speakers (albeit with a dCS stack as a front-end, and a much better room) was able to get gloriously natural sound in his space.

Anyway, the Elipsas were in many ways the exact opposite of that sound, there was warmth in spades as you might expect, and they never sounded bleached, but they still sounded incredibly open and I never wanted for clarity even in comparison. They had a very classy sound which was easier to live with in my world.

I never heard the original Elipsa, but I remember when they came first came out they were part of the Cremona line (they were actually called the Cremona Elipsa as I recall) and were never considered as "mini-Strads", despite the visual connection. Everything I've read suggests the SE is an entirely different ballgame, and really was much closer to a mini-Strad, but I don't have personal experience of the original so I can't really say for sure. One of the difficulties when it came to selling them was explaining the difference to potential purchasers (i.e. the price!) In any case, my dealer sold them on my behalf, but rumour has it that the buyer's wife took one look at the size of them, said "no way", and that was that. I think they've been sold since, but I know they sat in their boxes for many years.

Hi-FiGuy, I know it's stating the bleedin' obvious, but one of the best things about streaming is that sense of virtually unfettered access to music. I know quite a few hifi-loving friends who refuse to put streaming solutions into their systems, and that makes no sense to me in this era. I know we're in WhatsBestForum so I get that sonics are paramount, but for me the quality of what's on offer from Qobuz especially is plenty good enough, astonishing really, and I sometimes have to pinch myself that it's all just...there. So yes, letting music just play, with that glorious sense of discovery, with excellent sonics, is a real joy that I sometimes can't believe we take for granted.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing