Absolare to Dartzeel - what will i gain what will i lose

[pweg]

Ive been talking to my dealer and im contemplating adding the Dart pre and monos to my system of Absolare Signature pre and mono sets.

I wouldn't have thought there are many or any people who have made that decision but im sure there are some who have added the Darts after tubes. What were your thought when u did this.

thx

 

[heihei]

Speak to GuillaumeB who started the Absolare Integrated thread - he recently had the Dart power amp on loan and didn't think it got close to his Absolare.

 

[Thieliste]

I was on an audio tour last week in Switzerland and was able to audition the latest Dart and also the Aries Cerat pre-power and at the end i much preferred the Aries Cerat separates.
To my ears i also put CH Precision separates in front of Dart separates, just my opinion.
No experience with Absolare.

 

[jeff1225]

What speakers are you using? If they are a demanding load, you might gain headroom with the Dart.

 

[Legolas]

I was on an audio tour last week in Switzerland and was able to audition the latest Dart and also the Aries Cerat pre-power and at the end i much preferred the Aries Cerat separates.
To my ears i also put CH Precision separates in front of Dart separates, just my opinion.
No experience with Absolare.

I am coming full circle, back to SETs now. I found they do some things I just can't find in SS. If you have speakers with a reasonable impedance curve and decent efficiency, I would always say try SETs out. The opposite is huge SS class A amps driving I guess, power hungry speakers, but so far, systems at shows with that setup never floated my boat. The way a SET portrays female vocals, it seems to get to the heart of it somehow, I get all emotional about some music. The Living Voice room at Munich for example.... oh my.

 

[Thieliste]

I am coming full circle, back to SETs now. I found they do some things I just can't find in SS. If you have speakers with a reasonable impedance curve and decent efficiency, I would always say try SETs out. The opposite is huge SS class A amps driving I guess, power hungry speakers, but so far, systems at shows with that setup never floated my boat. The way a SET portrays female vocals, it seems to get to the heart of it somehow, I get all emotional about some music. The Living Voice room at Munich for example.... oh my.

+1

 

[asiufy]

pweg,

Which Absolares you have, and what's the speaker you'll be using?
I haven't heard the Absolares in a familiar system, but in Munich, they get consistently good sound. I did notice they don't play "big" music, possibly because the tube amps won't handle that well with the Rockport speakers they use. But for simpler stuff, it's indeed very smooth and warm, with excellent detail.
What you'll gain with the darTZeel is possibly an extra layer of realism, that only headroom allows. Unless you're using very efficient speakers (100dB+), the darTZeel will just sound more real, simply because it'll present the attack of the notes like they really are, and will never constrict the dynamics.
As an example, you can ask Mike Lavigne (or read his excellent write ups in his thread), who did a similar darTZeel x SOTA tubes, and ended up sticking with his darTZeel.
Michael Fremer has had many a tube and solid state behemoth in his room, and AFAIK, he still keeps the 458s, given how amazing overall they are.
With the new 468 monos, I think it becomes a no-brainer. If you can manage it, go for it. Better yet, keep both sets and switch at will


cheers,
Alex

 

[microstrip]

(....) Unless you're using very efficient speakers (100dB+), the darTZeel will just sound more real, simply because it'll present the attack of the notes like they really are, and will never constrict the dynamics. (...)

Alex,

Although I like a lot the great DartZeel's I disagree with such generic statement. DartZeel's have a typical sound, room and system matching - including source - and user preference will determinate what we find it more real or dynamic. It is why I would appreciate to read direct opinions of users of the DartZeel / Rockport pairing.

Mike and Fremer have very good reasons to own the DartZeel's , I think it is more interesting elaborating in depth on why they preferred them than simply referring to their cases.

And if an amplifier manages to presents the attack of the notes like they really are it becomes a real magician trick - even Fremer acknowledged that sound reproduction does not manage to do it. It is why we need great amplifiers to fool us.

 

[asiufy]

OK you're taking me too literally. How about "present the attack of the notes CLOSER TO what they really are..."?
My impression is that, because of the headroom, the darTZeel (as well as some other amps) might present the WHOLE more realistically than a low powered tube amp, while the tube amp might give more beauty and even sound more real on simpler stuff like piano/vocals. As I emphasized, this will depend on the speakers being used, as well as the room size and source material.

 

[pweg]

thx everyone for your replies and i must apologise for not listing more clearly my equipment

Absolares at the moment are signature SETS. The speakers are Marten Coltrane 3. Also, if it helps i don't have any headroom issues at the moment in my small room. Its merely the classic audiophile thing of "trying/wanting" something "better".

 

[Thieliste]

With Coltrane 3 i would try Aries Cerat Impera ll Sig + Concero 65 Sig

 

[microstrip]

OK you're taking me too literally. How about "present the attack of the notes CLOSER TO what they really are..."?
My impression is that, because of the headroom, the darTZeel (as well as some other amps) might present the WHOLE more realistically than a low powered tube amp, while the tube amp might give more beauty and even sound more real on simpler stuff like piano/vocals. As I emphasized, this will depend on the speakers being used, as well as the room size and source material.

My comment was on the whole and particularly triggered by the 100+ dB reference and your try to compare or establish absolutes. Considering that a crazy amount of never used headroom can bring a realism that can not be reached by other amplifiers is a subject for debate, at minimum. Also, IMHO some lower power amplifiers sound comparable or better on attack that DartZeels. But let others chime on this subject ...

Many times people feel that headroom brings realism because with very powerful amplifiers they listen louder, as the optimum zone of the amplifier is at these louder levels. At all demos I have witnessed with very powerful amplifiers at some point the demonstrator could not resist to show how loud they can play ...

My system is accurately power calibrated - something that is only easily possible with digital. It is was not for the scales and readouts I would systematically be favoring in level the equipment in which I believe before starting the evaluation.

 

[asiufy]

thx everyone for your replies and i must apologise for not listing more clearly my equipment

Absolares at the moment are signature SETS. The speakers are Marten Coltrane 3. Also, if it helps i don't have any headroom issues at the moment in my small room. Its merely the classic audiophile thing of "trying/wanting" something "better".

Got it now!
Perhaps you can just dip your toes in the darTZeel waters with a 18NS and 108 (mk2 both). For your usage, it'll give a good idea of what they're all about, and if you want, you can always go monoblocks later
If anything, I think it'll be fun to have the SET and the 108 side-by-side.

cheers,
alex

 

[jeff1225]

thx everyone for your replies and i must apologise for not listing more clearly my equipment

Absolares at the moment are signature SETS. The speakers are Marten Coltrane 3. Also, if it helps i don't have any headroom issues at the moment in my small room. Its merely the classic audiophile thing of "trying/wanting" something "better".

The Darts are not better but they are different. Good luck....I'd just buy more records!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Yes, I am leading the witness, but . . .

. . . pweg, aren't you afraid that your Marten Coltrane 3s will sound bright or analytical if you switch to solid-state electronics?

 

[adyc]

Ive been talking to my dealer and im contemplating adding the Dart pre and monos to my system of Absolare Signature pre and mono sets.

I wouldn't have thought there are many or any people who have made that decision but im sure there are some who have added the Darts after tubes. What were your thought when u did this.

thx

I’m the one who replaced SET amps with 468. These are my experiences in my system unlike someone who just spent few hours with different sources and speakers and then make some judgement which amps are better. I have horn speaker and also a small room. So it is natural to think why I need more power. I don’t. But I found the SET amps are not satisfactory. It does not give me the realism and attack I want. At first, I replace it with 108 Model 1. It is a big improvement. Full of power and dynamics. Very musical. 108 never ran out of steam. But my dartzeel dealer gave me a good deal on 468. I hesitate as I thought the increase in power may not bring any improvement. I checked around and sent an email to Mike as he has 458 with high efficiency speakers. I jumped the gun and did not regret on the decision. 468 seems to be on steroids. It is more on everything compared to 108.

In the last month, due to some circumstances, CH dealer is able to loan me a set of L1 and 2x M1 for a month. I can tell you CH is damn good. When I first turned on, I’m shocked. It throws a huge soundstage and depth. Even deeper and bigger than dartzeel. But I found them the body is a bit thinner. It may change with the new capacitors. There are a lot of tube owners in here switching to CH like gain. I can understand why now.

Dartzeel and CH are worthy alternatives. Please check them out.

 

[microstrip]

I’m the one who replaced SET amps with 468. These are my experiences in my system unlike someone who just spent few hours with different sources and speakers and then make some judgement which amps are better. (...)

Great to read opinions of the new 468 owners - can you tell us what is source, preamp and speakers?

 

[adyc]

Great to read opinions of the new 468 owners - can you tell us what is source, preamp and speakers?

Source is Chord Blu2/DAVE. Preamp is dartzeel 18NS series 2. Speaker is AC Symphonia.

 

[pweg]

Yes, I am leading the witness, but . . .

. . . pweg, aren't you afraid that your Marten Coltrane 3s will sound bright or analytical if you switch to solid-state electronics?

Ron - totally yes

one of the reasons for the post

 

[pweg]

Great to read opinions of the new 468 owners - can you tell us what is source, preamp and speakers?

thx Adyc

fortunately my dealer sells Dart, CH, Vitus, Lamm, Absolare, .......