All-in-one streaming amp?

[RichardSD]

Hi, All. I am looking for an all-in-one (or all-in-two?) solution to drive my DeVille SQ. In additional to top notch sound quality, I need it to 1) work in a wifi network, 2) be a Roon endpoint, 3) have HDMI input, 4) room correction (optional, but highly desirable)

Currently, I have another system driven by a Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 which satisfies all of the above criteria. I could just get another Lyngdorf, but it's been a couple of years, so I wonder if there are other options out there now. If one box solution is not available, I can consider a two box option with a DAC/streamer + amp.

Some of the options I know of include: NAD M33, Linn Selekt DSM (not a fan of their software).

I really wanted to try some cool-looking gear such as Pathos TT, but I'm having trouble finding a wireless streaming DAC that can also do room correction.

Any comments/suggestions welcome.

 

[beaur]

Richard,

That's a tricky item to find, and your Lyngdorf is still at or near the top of the heap for one-stop boxes.

Other than an AV Receiver this is the only thing I can think of right now; https://www.trinnov.com/en/products/ovation2/

Have you checked out the Roon Partners page? https://roon.app/en/partners

Most of the Roon endpoints, like my Innuos, don't have HDMI.

The Linn is pretty good. Do you have to use their software if you use Roon? I know with the Innuos it's either Roon or their software, can't use both at the same time.

Hope this helps

Beau

 

[MRJAZZ]

Try the HiFi Rose 520.....
Great bang for the buck.....

Cheers.....

 

[RichardSD]

Thanks for your reply, @beaur.

@MRJAZZ, thanks for mentioning Hifi Rose. That's really promising. Their high end DAC/streamer RS150B got several rave reviews from YouTubers, including from Steve Hoff, our de facto FSC ambassador. It could be part of a two-in-one solution.

 

[Hear Here]

I was in your situation 3 years ago and home tested a dozen amps or all-in-ones. I had the Lyngdorf 3400 but I didn't like some of its features, and lots of others amps, including the NAD M32, with prices up to £8K. In the end I chose the M32 above all the rest. I upgraded to M33 when it was released and I'm very content with it powering my Avantgarde Uno speakers.

However since buying the M33, I've upgraded my speakers to Avantgarde Duo XD and it seems logical that I should be able to take advantage of its full potential with an even better front end. This is likely to be an all-in-two as I'm pretty much convinced that there's no better all-in-one than the M33. However, I think I'll have to cough up around £12K to improve on the NAD, so I'm not rushing in!

I've considered the Rose RS150 plus a power amp, but a short demo didn't convince me that its control app was anywhere near the BluOS app that NAD employs. Incidentally this is 95% as comprehensive and easier to use intuitively as Roon, so I've not used Roon apart from a month trial. In my quest for an upgrade from the M33, I'm determined to find a streamer that has an equally good app, as otherwise I'll need a Roon Core and a subscription - things I hope to avoid!

The Auralic G2.1 is a possibility and the Rose dealer rated this above the Rose for sound quality. I'm told the Lumin P1 (+ power amp) would be good as its app is claimed to be good, though I'm not sure if it's available on all 4 platforms. I use a Windows PC most of the time as I hate controlling music with a touch screen where a slightly heavy-fingered prod cause the music I'm listening to being rudely interrupted! I hate that and passing the tablet / phone to friends to select music makes this more likely.

Another solution may be a basic streamer (no DAC or pre) and a good amp such as Hegel H390 or Mark Levinson 5802 amongst others. I'me visiting a showroom tomorrow to listen to the Hegel. I'll be taking my M33 for direct comparison with the Hegel (using M33 as streamer only) and then substituting another streamer to compare the M33's streaming abilities with (probably) an Auralic or Innuos as the dealer handles these brands.

In summary, I'd suggest the M33 as better overall than the Lyngford - certainly regarding features and its app - even if sound quality is comparable. I doubt you can better the NAD if used with any speakers costing up to about £12K. Above that, it's a 2 box solution and that's a more tricky decision! Peter

 

[RichardSD]

Thanks for the detailed reply, @Hear Here. Lucky for me, a nearby dealer carries NAD as well as Hegel. I ended up with the Lyngdorf its RoomPerfect reputation. I did find RoomPerfect pretty easy to use, and it did make a noticeable difference. My KEF Blade 2 already threw a big and well defined sound stage, and RoomPerfect just kicked it up a notch.

I will definitely check out the M33 soon. And please do share your finding on the Hegel. (Someone in the Roon forum also suggested Hegel for my KEF.)

 

[joaovieira]

You can check Gold Note Integrated, comes with a streamer and a DAC

 

[beaur]

I'll also add that the new Technics integrated are great with the DeVilles. If you get a chance listen to them.

Beau

 

[Hear Here]

Thanks for the detailed reply, @Hear Here. Lucky for me, a nearby dealer carries NAD as well as Hegel. I ended up with the Lyngdorf its RoomPerfect reputation. I did find RoomPerfect pretty easy to use, and it did make a noticeable difference. My KEF Blade 2 already threw a big and well defined sound stage, and RoomPerfect just kicked it up a notch.

I will definitely check out the M33 soon. And please do share your finding on the Hegel. (Someone in the Roon forum also suggested Hegel for my KEF.)

Richard - Certainly if you already have Roon, the Hegel may be an excellent add-on to provide all that the NAD or Lyngdorf does.

However, regarding RoomPerfect (or Dirac) try listening to a track with very little bass but oodles of detailed and exciting top end. Even though these DSPs don't ADJUST higher freqiencies, the unavoidable fact is (with a full-range amp) the ENTIRE signal has to endure the rigeurs of this complex processor. Listen carefully and I think you'll hear the same as me - a small but noticeable loss of top end detail when a filter is engaged Some of the sparkle / goosebump factor is lost when a filter is engaged. That's why I choose to keep my NAD with Dirac off and do the job of improving room acoustics by other means less harnful to the precious signal..

Others will disagree of course!

 

[RichardSD]

@Hear Here, your observation of how room correction changes high frequency response is interesting. I will see I can hear that. I have a feeling my old ears can tell the difference though, haha. I have lost a lot of sensitivity in the high frequency region. That said, it would certainly be easier to find gear if I don't need the room correction functionality.

Loved your profile picture, by the way. What a view.

 

[RichardSD]

I'll also add that the new Technics integrated are great with the DeVilles. If you get a chance listen to them.

Beau

Yeah, they look very nice too. But they don't have HDMI input though.

The way things are going, looks like many companies are putting DACs into their integrated amps. This is a right direction, but they did not go all the way and include the HDMI input. Don't they know people want the best sound for their concert videos and movies also?

 

[F208Frank]

I'll also add that the new Technics integrated are great with the DeVilles. If you get a chance listen to them.

Beau

Regarding how the technics are designed, would you say that the DAC choice becomes less important?

 

[thomask]

This speaker was driven by Hifirose all in one amp to good effect.

HiFi ROSE

Beyond Audio, HiFi ROSE

eng.hifirose.com

 

[beaur]

Regarding how the technics are designed, would you say that the DAC choice becomes less important?

I'd say that the Technics are essentially a 21st Century version of a receiver. It's an all-in-one box that would serve as the hub for your entire system.

Beau

 

[beaur]

This speaker was driven by Hifirose all in one amp to good effect.

Given the technology available, these all-in-one boxes are becoming a viable alternative to separate boxes with the accompanying cables and power demands.

Beau

 

[RichardSD]

Regarding how the technics are designed, would you say that the DAC choice becomes less important?

Based on my rudimentary understanding, it might have some similarity to the design of Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. Maybe someone with real engineering knowledge can chime in on this.

 

[RichardSD]

This speaker was driven by Hifirose all in one amp to good effect.

HiFi ROSE

Beyond Audio, HiFi ROSE

eng.hifirose.com

@thomask, one of my potential two-box solution basically consists of a Hifi Rose RS150B (or a Matrix element M2) and an amp.

Another lower cost two-box solution is just to feed a Bluesound Node into any one of the integrated amps since they all have a DAC built-in. Some interesting amp choices include then Technics, Heaven 11, Pathos inPol or TT, among many others.

Unfortunately, none of the above includes room correction. I will have to add a miniDSP SHD to get room correction.

With all these choices, I am tempted to go with the NAD M33 which checks all of my boxes (wifi streaming + HDMI input + room correction).

 

[Hear Here]

@Hear Here, your observation of how room correction changes high frequency response is interesting. I will see I can hear that. I have a feeling my old ears can tell the difference though, haha. I have lost a lot of sensitivity in the high frequency region. That said, it would certainly be easier to find gear if I don't need the room correction functionality.

Loved your profile picture, by the way. What a view.

Thanks Richard - Have you done the test with bass-light music played with RP on and RP off? I had loan of the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 a while back, but I can't recall whether the bass can be excluded from the speaker output binding posts if the Sub setting is enabled. With the NAD M33, the Sub setting can cut all sub-200 Hz from the speaker output, so this is a good way to demonstrate the disadvantage of room correction DSP. We know the advantage is to flatten the bass response, but most people seem to overlook the accompanying disadvantage. I'd be very interested in your opinion. My findings are clearly in favour of getting speakers set up for their best performance (and the room sympathetically furnished / carpeted, etc) and leaving DSP out of the signal path.

 

[RichardSD]

@Hear Here The main difference I heard with RP on vs off is in imaging. Everything is better defined when RP is on. Instruments are more focused, and there seems to be more depth in sound stage. I’ve seen other people mention the same.

> I can't recall whether the bass can be excluded from the speaker output binding posts if the Sub setting is enabled...

Yes, the 3400 has extensive speaker output configuration. See the screenshots below. You can configure LF cutoff to the main speaker outputs and to the sub outputs. All of these will then be integrated into RP.

Speaker config page:


Main speaker configuration:


Sub configuration:

 

[RichardSD]

I am leaning toward getting a Heaven 11 Billie Mk II plus a BlueSound Node as a streamer. Do you think I'm sacrificing much by using Billie's internal DAC?

I know not many people would have a chance for a direct comparison, but what do you think the above combination compares to NAD M33 (ignoring the price difference)?

I would love to try the Technics Su-G700M2, but no one seems to have it in stock.