Am I the only one who thinks Red Book is better than HiRez?

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
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Hello,

I purchase a fair bit of music on a monthly basis, mostly from one of the few remaining brick and mortar music stores left standing in my area. I should mention that I only purchase " Used" CD's. I specificly target CD's created prior to Y2K or thereabouts because IME they seem to be the only ones left that haven't been "Remastered" (more like molested).

On occassion I also purchase downloaded "HiRes" versions of the same Redbook stuff I already own. I haven't quite figured out why I continue to do this because in 9 out of 10 times the older Redbook version always sounds better, by a fairly big margin.

I get that an artist would be interested in making additional profits on an otherwise dried up album but in almost every case, IME, in doing so they sell out to the grubby mits involved in funding the "Remaster" who insist on crushing the original dynamics to oblivion just to please the new generation listening to the music via Beats headphones and .MP3 files.

Yes, I'm one of those "Audacity cowboy's" and Foobar Dynamic Range meter fans because,once again, IME the measurements don't lie. I've yet to hear a recording that measures worse than the orignal and actually sound better.

WTF is wrong with these people! Once all the good versions of these albums dry up all hope will be lost. My hope is that there will be no shortage of old stuff anytime before I cease to exist which was sold off by the younger generation that already owns a downloaded copy from I-Tunes.

What are your thoughts on this?
 

BlueFox

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Nov 8, 2013
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What are your thoughts on this?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I find the exact opposite. To each their own.
 

GaryProtein

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Jul 25, 2012
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It all depends on the mastering.

Some redbook CD's sound great and some HiRez disks sound dry and lifeless.

If the mastering engineer is an idiot (so many are) then the HiRez can sound worse than the redbook.

You can't make a rule that one always sounds better than the other.

You can only hope for the best when you shell out $25 to $60, some times more, for a HiRez disk or download.

Remastering of a CD is the kiss of death. I too only look for older CD's of older recordings.
 
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BlueFox

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Nov 8, 2013
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I would love to make some comparisons. Are there any albums you recommend?

The best example for me is the 44/24 version of The Pale Emperor by Marilyn Manson versus the Redbook 44/16 version. When I bought the CD it was around $10 on Amazon, and $18 on HD Tracks. My first thought was 8 bits more on the download can't be worth $8 more, so I bought the CD. Turns out I loved the CD, and after a couple of months decided to try the download. Well, there is no contest. The download is quieter, and louder. In other words, it's dynamic range is much better. I have now deleted all the ripped CD tracks, and only listen to the download.

Generally, I avoid re-buying music and DVDs, but do so for my very favorites. I have downloaded Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin albums that embarrass the CDs.

Also, I use my ears for this evaluation. I am not so insecure that I need measurements to validate what I hear.
 

NorthStar

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Feb 8, 2011
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Steve Jobs said to her daughter, who was carrying a walkman with headphones (cassette tape player); "I'm going to put thousands of songs in there, in a portable device, that you can carry everywhere."

iThink iTwas the iLaunch of the Apple iPod.

Then Neil Young, a friend of Steve, and of Bob Stuart, later on launched the Pono player.
 

Johnny Vinyl

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Yes, I'm one of those "Audacity cowboy's" and Foobar Dynamic Range meter fans because,once again, IME the measurements don't lie. I've yet to hear a recording that measures worse than the orignal and actually sound better.

But they also don't tell you the whole story. I have several CDs that measure pathetically on the DR scale, but the music is nonetheless very engaging and the DR numbers are easily forgotten. If absolute sound quality is your yardstick then what I just said likely falls on deaf ears, but if its the music that drives you then you'd do well not to discount all low/poor DR releases.
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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I thought this had previously been extensively discussed here and elsewhere? Do due diligence before you buy, which I agree can be difficult or sometimes impossible. I have hundreds if not thousands of hi-res recordings that sound clearly better than their CD counterparts, in fact I'm listening to Dorati's Nutcracker in hi-res right now.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
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Seattle, WA
The best example for me is the 44/24 version of The Pale Emperor by Marilyn Manson versus the Redbook 44/16 version. When I bought the CD it was around $10 on Amazon, and $18 on HD Tracks. My first thought was 8 bits more on the download can't be worth $8 more, so I bought the CD. Turns out I loved the CD, and after a couple of months decided to try the download. Well, there is no contest. The download is quieter, and louder. In other words, it's dynamic range is much better. I have now deleted all the ripped CD tracks, and only listen to the download.
Thanks but I was asking for the opposite scenario :). A CD that sounds better than its high-res version.
 

asiufy

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Simple. Take any old, non-remastered Genesis album on CD, and compare it to the hi-res (DVD-A or SACD). The hi-res stuff was not only remastered, but remixed as well, with compression up the wazoo.
 

Ron Party

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Apr 30, 2010
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... and a damn shame. I would like, no ... crave, to see our own Bruce get his hands on the original Genesis tracks and work his magic. There's a whole world of prog rock fans who would line up with their check books in hand for this.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
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Seattle, WA
Simple. Take any old, non-remastered Genesis album on CD, and compare it to the hi-res (DVD-A or SACD). The hi-res stuff was not only remastered, but remixed as well, with compression up the wazoo.
So I queued up my Genesis album of We Can't Dance and the opening track, No Son of Mine has superb fidelity indeed. I have filed away all of my SACDs and DVD-As in the attic and don't have them ripped either. Have to dig into that or buy the SACD/DVD-A again.

Any examples where the high-res download is available?
 

es347

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Could be my imagination I suppose but after owning the Steely Dan catalogue on cd, circa mid 80s then buying it remastered 1999, I found the remastered releases to be significantly better..
 

asiufy

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I believe some of the japanese SHM-SACDs coming out recently are not necessarily better than the redbook CDs. I've heard one (might've been "Aja"), and it had a very noticeable lack of treble energy.
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
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Thanks but I was asking for the opposite scenario :). A CD that sounds better than its high-res version.

Hello Amirm,

I'll do you one better...Here's a few of them below:

Led Zeppelin I Redbook vs HDTracks 24/96 download

Roger Waters "Amused to Death" Redbook vs Acoustic Sounds DSD version

Fleetwood Mac Rumours Redbook vs HDTracks 24/96 download

Black Sabbath Paranoid Redbook vs HDTracks 24/96 download

That should keep you busy for a while. I have more but we can stop there for now :)

One thing I will mention is that I never measure an album before I listen to it first. Most of the time it only takes the first 30sec to 1min of listening to know the answer.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
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Seattle, WA
Roger Waters "Amused to Death" Redbook vs Acoustic Sounds DSD version.
THanks a bunch. I have the CD and 192 Khz PCM download. On track 2, the high-res has some kind of noise filtering applied to it causing it to lose much of its luster and ambiance. And the dynamic range definitely lower. Bummer :(.

Roon by default was hiding away the CD thinking it is a duplicate at lower resolution. Have to override that.
 

Ronm1

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Feb 21, 2011
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Could be my imagination I suppose but after owning the Steely Dan catalogue on cd, circa mid 80s then buying it remastered 1999, I found the remastered releases to be significantly better..
Found the same at the time not even close
 

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