Analog, Digital and all that

sbnx

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Hello everyone,

There are a couple of threads that I probably could post this in but though it should likely be it's own. The two related thread are State-of-the-Art Digital and What does it mean when people describe Digital as Sounding like "Analog"? Best term?.

First off I do not own a turntable, but I have a pretty good digital system (Esoteric P02, MSB DiamondV). So let's say somebody has a $50K relatively new digital system such as an Aurender W20SE + Lampi Pacific. How much would one have to spend on an analog setup to surpass this sound quality. One would have to buy a table, Cart, Arm, PhonoPre, Phono cable, a suitable rack and the necessary tools to perfectly set it up.

Maybe you analog guru's can chime in but I am guessing:

$20K for the table
$10K for the Cart
$10K for the arm
$10K-$20K for the Preamp
$5-$10K for the cable
$5k-$10k for the rack

Suggestions?
 

andromedaaudio

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The tittle said analogue so please forgive me .:)

Here we go: A Studer B62 in perfect shape is 5000 $$ and a hugh masekela Hope Analogue productions double reel 450 $$

Buy that and spend the rest of your lifetime trying to better that sound digitally
 

Al M.

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Not sure if I would come to the same conclusions, but I'd love to have a shootout between my $ 6.5K digital rig and such a turntable set-up. That should be fun!

Of course, who is the "winner" will also depend on your listening priorities and preferences.
 

jeff1225

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Not sure if I would come to the same conclusions, but I'd love to have a shootout between my $ 6.5K digital rig and such a turntable set-up. That should be fun!

Of course, who is the "winner" will also depend on your listening priorities and preferences.

That would be a lot of fun Al! Next time I'm on the East Coast we'll have to try it @PeterA ' s house.
 

jeff1225

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Not sure if I would come to the same conclusions, but I'd love to have a shootout between my $ 6.5K digital rig and such a turntable set-up. That should be fun!

Of course, who is the "winner" will also depend on your listening priorities and preferences.
I think the more important consideration with analog is the software and not the hardware. It's much more difficult find and clean quality vinyl than stream from Tidal.
 
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Al M.

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That would be a lot of fun Al! Next time I'm on the East Coast we'll have to try it @PeterA ' s house.

I look forward to your next visit!

(Hope this COVID thing subsides at some point...)
 
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Al M.

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I think the more important consideration with analog is the software and not the hardware. It's much more difficult find and clean quality vinyl than stream from Tidal.

Agreed on the vinyl, but when you have a good pressing, it can be amazing. I don't do Tidal, but finding good CDs is not that hard, even though there are some that suck, too. In some genres (pop, rock) more so than in others.
 

PeterA

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That would be a lot of fun Al! Next time I'm on the East Coast we'll have to try it @PeterA ' s house.

Jeff, will you be bringing that vinyl front end? My SME can’t compete with what you’re describing. I’m not sure my Boston Audio buddies even like the recent changes to my system. Perhaps you should just take your rig to Al’s house.

The other option would be to take Al’s digital front end over to Romy the cats place but I don’t know if Romy allows digital in his house
 
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Mike Lavigne

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to me this is a music genre question, and even music era question.

if you love golden age rock, jazz, blues and classical, then the tt will get you access to the best of that (even plenty of nice re-issues) at half the price of that digital front end.

but if more recent recordings are a big part of your interest, then you need 'more' turntable to rise above.....since the delta is less.

personally i would likely just stay with your already (really top notch) digital and not bother with a tt, unless you are a big 'golden age' music fan.
 

microstrip

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A vintage Garrard 401, SME 3012R, Ortofon SPU and Lamm LP2.1 preamp will give more musical enjoyment than any digital set up for $10-$15K.

Nice to know. Can it play King Lion for my grand daughter?
 

Skanda

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to me this is a music genre question, and even music era question.

if you love golden age rock, jazz, blues and classical, then the tt will get you access to the best of that (even plenty of nice re-issues) at half the price of that digital front end.

but if more recent recordings are a big part of your interest, then you need 'more' turntable to rise above.....since the delta is less.

personally i would likely just stay with your already (really top notch) digital and not bother with a tt, unless you are a big 'golden age' music fan.

totally agree here, i wanted to love vinly and set up a modest turntable rig. but with my musical tastes being more modern i found it hard to make good use of the set up and thought my digital was better so ended up focusing on that solely.
 
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andromedaaudio

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Jeff, will you be bringing that vinyl front end? My SME can’t compete with what you’re describing. I’m not sure my Boston Audio buddies even like the recent changes to my system. Perhaps you should just take your rig to Al’s house.

The other option would be to take Al’s digital front end over to Romy the cats place but I don’t know if Romy allows digital in his house


Really :)??

Digital is a bad omen ??
 

microstrip

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to me this is a music genre question, and even music era question. (...)

To me it is mostly a question of listener attitude, also driven by his preferences and lifestyle. I have a friend who is a jazz expert and hates distortion, pops and clicks or anything related with setup. He owns a nice digital setup that sounds very enjoyable for the sound, not for audio gimmicks. Not everyone enjoys buying several copies of each used LP to select one that plays decently ...

IMHO no one can rule about preference, much less about music enjoyment! ;)
 

sbnx

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Mike, That was some good insight into why someone might want to consider a TT. My musical tastes don't really lean toward the "golden age". I also don't think a TT is good for me because I am too OCD and would never be convinced that the setup was as good as it possibly could be. Just too many adjustments to make.

I was curious how much people thought it would take to best SOTA digital. I thought that maybe a lot of people would say "less than $20K" because it seems some have such a high regard for analog and an extreme sensitivity to digititis that even the best digital sounds bad to them.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Mike, That was some good insight into why someone might want to consider a TT. My musical tastes don't really lean toward the "golden age". I also don't think a TT is good for me because I am too OCD and would never be convinced that the setup was as good as it possibly could be. Just too many adjustments to make.

I was curious how much people thought it would take to best SOTA digital. I thought that maybe a lot of people would say "less than $20K" because it seems some have such a high regard for analog and an extreme sensitivity to digititis that even the best digital sounds bad to them.

if you mainly played 45rpm golden age Jazz and Blues reissues, then $15k-$20k worth of turntable/arm/cart/phono would blow away any digital. in this case ultimate pressings are just THAT good. and the combo of those records and that format are just unbeatable.

but it's rare to have your music that narrowly focused. so mostly it's not that simple. too many variables to pin it down. vinyl lends itself to so many great modestly priced pieces that can be put together to rise above the dollar approach.
 

spiritofmusic

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Mike, imho this is the curse of the bleeding edge/SOTA/perfect sources. To be so good at digital that maybe only the very best original lp pressings are superior. And so good at analog that so much digital pales.

If the hobby demands the very best pressings or the very best server/dac combination, then it's less an enthusiast's hobby and more a perfectionist's trial.

That's not a criticism of your desire to have the very best. It's just a comment that getting to that level too strongly emphasises extremes and polarises opinions.
 
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sbnx

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I’m ok with Mike’s response as he answers the question of how much does it take to beat SOTA digital.

Your point is that $10k for a total TT system still gets fantastic sound with propper attention to setup detail.
 

spiritofmusic

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There's no doubt even me as a vinyl lover can see Extreme as the ultimate source since it effectively comes w that Tidal or Qobuz library. As the max bang for yr buck without having to worry about/invest in that vinyl library, it's hard to argue against. If the house burnt down and I had to start again, w Extreme and 0000s of albums on tap, would I still go to the effort and expense of building up an lp collection again? I really don't know. But I do know a stellar sound can be gotten from a £10k analog front end. The Sony DD/SAEC507 12"/Aidas Panzerholz rig I heard at UKPaul's fits this price band, and I can't think of a cdp or server/dac that beats it, at 3x the price.
 

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