Antipodes CX+EX

IanG-UK

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2011
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I'm only 2 weeks in on my CX/EX/P2 combo, and after having taken several weeks to burn in the standalone CX demo unit, I know I still have a couple weeks to go minimally to hear it closer to it's best...from post above, perhaps longer.

I can say that dropping a brand new EX as a renderer onto a burned in CX as the server only was an immediate improvement. The P2 can help on top of that, although it wasn't as big of an improvement (yet)--using it to convert USB to i2s for my PS Audio Directstream DAC.

I can also say that replacing a burned-in CX with a brand new one was an immediate step backwards as well. The burn in is very, very real.

I have the 3 units stacked P2 then EX then CX, and I'm thinking I will get the P1 at some point and stack them side by side, although that is more for the like Hot Wheels effect--"Gotta collect 'em all!" I don't expect a noticeable impact, but could explore re-burning some CDs that are favorites.

I have the CX/EX/P1/P2 stacked in a 2 x 2 array - so visually in looks like a single unit.

See https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/ians-audio-set-up.30009/#post-631639

Whilst I have the P1 and P2 I have no experience of either yet as I can never pull myself away from just listening using CX and EX.

Mark Jenkins who is Antipodes owner (as far as I know)/designer is a big advocate of reripping your CDs using the P1 and Samsung 860 EVO SSD units for storage - though comparative listening is difficult as you need to extract one SSD unit and insert another so an instant switch over is not possible - and moreover the thought of reripping hundreds of CDs at maybe 6 - 10 minutes per disc is not compelling. I understand that the P1 ripping process is thorough but lengthy.

I also understand that whilst the P2 has a variety of outputs, Mark's preferred one is I2S which very much limits the DAC or DAC/amplifier you can use.
 
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Parsons

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Mar 31, 2018
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Can you try the EX+P2 and compare it to the CX+EX+P2? Also, what kind of music are you mostly listening to. Streamed from TIDAL via roon or local files (44.1/16) played back from Roon? Let us know what your impressions are with that comparison and also the rest of your system setup so we can have a reference. Thanks!

I promise to try this in a couple of weeks after the units are more burned in.
 

DeMarko

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2020
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There is a suggestion that Samsung EVO SSD storage units, together with re-ripped CDs using the P1, results in something better - according to Mark Jenkins. The thought of reripping 600+ CDs is unattractive!

I can confirm that. I am a long time Antipodes Audio servers user. Started with Antipodes Reference then moved to DX, then to CX and now to CX + EX. I had to re-rip all my CDs with Antipodes since I noticed a big improvement over my then rips done with my notebook. And back then I thought I'd done it all properly with Exact Audio Copy and all the settings for my particular drive, and all the up to date recommendations from the net pros :) I only had circa 300 CDs back then.
 

IanG-UK

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2011
245
42
123
I can confirm that. I am a long time Antipodes Audio servers user. Started with Antipodes Reference then moved to DX, then to CX and now to CX + EX. I had to re-rip all my CDs with Antipodes since I noticed a big improvement over my then rips done with my notebook. And back then I thought I'd done it all properly with Exact Audio Copy and all the settings for my particular drive, and all the up to date recommendations from the net pros :) I only had circa 300 CDs back then.

Hi - I am thinking of doing the same though my CDs run to 600-700.

Do you remember how long, on average, it took to rip a CD? Mark suggests 6 - 10 minutes which could make the job up to 115 hours long for me. Admittedly over a few weeks!
 

matthias

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Mar 14, 2019
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Hi - I am thinking of doing the same though my CDs run to 600-700.

With such a big library I would buy a very good cd transport which will certainly sound better than ripped CDs and is less masochistic than ripping CDs:)

Matt
 

DeMarko

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2020
28
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Hi - I am thinking of doing the same though my CDs run to 600-700.

Do you remember how long, on average, it took to rip a CD? Mark suggests 6 - 10 minutes which could make the job up to 115 hours long for me. Admittedly over a few weeks!

My experience is not with P1 that you have but with Antipodes DX. I'd say around 10 minutes each. Some CDs were quicker, some, if bad, took longer.
What I'd do is take, say 3 or 5, of my best and/or most loved CDs, rip them and then do reality check if they indeed sound better than my previous rips. If they are, then you I have a known goal with rewards ahead.If the rips sound the same or around the same, then I did a great job with previous rips and haven't spent much time, and it would also mean I've satisfied my curiosity, found that all is good, relaxed and stayed happy ever since :)
If the new rips are indeed better, take another 5 or 10 of your second best. Do it in small lots and enjoy the process of seeing your beloved CDs, holding them in your hands. There's no need to sit 24-7 staring at the ripper :)

Having wrote that, I wonder if P1's rips would be better than rips I did with the Antipodes DX's built in ripper ... I guess I'd need to try my own medicine at some point.
 
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DeMarko

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Mar 27, 2020
28
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With such a big library I would buy a very good cd transport which will certainly sound better than ripped CDs and is less masochistic than ripping CDs:)

Matt

I've gone that route, from files to CDs again and then back again for good.
I yet have to find a CD transport even comparable in SQ to my server. I had 47 Labs, upgraded too, had a very interesting top Roksan Attessa of their latest brew and also upgraded, had several others either bought or borrowed, and then went up to Esoteric P05. Then a friend compared my then server with his $15k Wadia which was his reference for years and Esoteric P02 which he wanted. That was the point where I stopped looking at CD transports as I realized I'd need to raise my budget to at least $15-20k (10k-15k if bought used) just to match what I was getting from my server back then. It didn't make sense. This was several years ago when my server was not nearly as good as now, and I don't see many better CD transports appearing since then. I have access to two Metronome CD transports now, one is a $70k unit, wonderful machines but no.
 
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harsheel_dbs

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Mar 12, 2020
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thank you all for the wonderful information re Antipodes servers. I am in the market for a new server and am curious if any of the antipodes owners have tried any innuos servers before deciding on their Antipodes.
 

F208Frank

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Mar 27, 2020
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New York
Tony from customer support is an amazing and helpful person for Antipodes. Their products are extremely well built, enjoying mine immensely.
 

swatello

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Apr 17, 2020
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Hello guys! I am newbie here!
I am really happy to use my CX + EX + P2
I have been using a lot of cd transports since 2000 year, my favorite are ML 31.5 , Wadia 270, Proceed CDD, but,
they all a really worthless compared to Antipodes combo. So, for a last few months i have had a lot of experiments with my antipodes. I have changed fuses to SR Orange, have tested a few power cords,
Ia lot of USB and few Ethernet cords, my favorite now is RAL cables, USB two tails and Ethernet CX to EX
So now i am absolutely happy when i use my media library from ssd samsung evo, but, when i try to use tidal or qobuz i am really disappointed with broadcast quality, it’s not a bad but compared to offline ssd i have missed a lot of music )
From ssd it’s more transparent, clearly, more coherent, much more musical, deeper scene and so on.
Does anyone has similar experience or the problem with my router ?
)))
Regards!
 

DeMarko

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2020
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Hi swatello!
In my case a 5 year old Antipodes DS Reference server was already significantly better than a $10,000 dedicated Esoteric CD transport, and a friend had similar results comparing to his beloved $16,000 Wadia transport, he switched to Antipodes and never looked back. EX and CX alone are way better than those 5 year old ones, and then you have a combo, so no wonder!

This forum has lots of info on how to get network sound better. Some people report that Tidal / Qobuz starts to sound close or even equal to playing from built in server memory if one invests in improving the network before it gets into a server.
Good reports are on Sotm, Melco, Uptone, Telegartner and possibly a much less known Japanese made switches, especially if 2x switches are used at the same time, plus 2x SFP optical modules and a good optical cable between them, plus good Ethernet cables, plus good linear power supplies. Experiments became quite expensive at that.
Some people also reported that adding a 3rd switch just after the router (before the 2x switches mentioned above) and plugging NAS into it improves the sound quality further.

Some people who don't have NAS, and you probably don't since you can have up to 8 Tb SSD memory in your CX, say that switches may not be necessary and only 2x optical SFP modules with an optical cable are enough.
If I wanted to save, I'd go with:
- 2x good SFP modules + a good optical cable between them, the best ones were discussed in other threads,
- a medium Ethernet cable before the first SFP module and a good one after the second and into your CX,
- a good and short Ethernet cable between your CX and EX,
- and optional good linear power supply on the router and possibly a good DC cable from that power supply to the router.

IF a NAS is present in the system, then a switch is needed, and things become more complicated and much more expensive.
 
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F208Frank

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Mar 27, 2020
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New York
Do you guys feel the upgraded ethernet cables are audible with the cx and ex combo? Which ethernet cable is more important (between cx/ex) or from router to cx?

Any specific ethernet cable reccomendations? Thank you!
 

DeMarko

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2020
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Great question, I am curious too.

Mark Jenkins of Antipodes Audio says the CX -> EX is very audible. He did not specifically say which one was more important, we'll have to find out ourselves.
I will start with that CX into EX cable soon first and will then experiment with the upstream. I ordered a short Sablon ethernet cable for the purpose. From the ones mentioned on the forum I'd want to try Dalby and Vertere. In a thread What Ethernet Cables are Members Using, Bluedog prefers Shunyata Sigma to SoTM dCBL-CAT7, so a good candidate to try, could be a safe choice too but I'd be careful as I consistently managed to find something much better in both SQ and value than Shunyata before.

Before I had CX, I had Antipodes DX3 and I did experiment with upstream cables. I compared Waversa, Sablon and an older 2nd from the top Entreq ethernet cables. Sablon was easily better.
 

F208Frank

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2020
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95
New York
Interesting thank you for adding to discussion. Anyways Mark Jenkins himself uses the Vodka by Audioquest as the ethernet cable of choice and as you mentioned cx to ex is more important. I was just "fact checking"

Unfortunately for me if I end up getting cx to ex cable my OCD forces me to get the router to CX cable which adds up quite fast.

Sigh... this damn audio hobby costs too much this should be my last purchase for a LONG time though.
 

LeBlanc

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2019
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Interesting thank you for adding to discussion. Anyways Mark Jenkins himself uses the Vodka by Audioquest as the ethernet cable of choice and as you mentioned cx to ex is more important. I was just "fact checking"

Unfortunately for me if I end up getting cx to ex cable my OCD forces me to get the router to CX cable which adds up quite fast.

Sigh... this damn audio hobby costs too much this should be my last purchase for a LONG time though.

If you add fiber between router and CX you could manage with much shorter Ethernet cables. And fiber cables are really cheap compared to audiophile Ethernet cables.
 

F208Frank

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2020
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95
New York
Fair statement, I just am drawing a line for myself as I dislike too many boxes. As of now I have:

CX to EX to M Scaler to Chord Dave to Amp. I feel like if I keep adding any more boxes I will go insane.

Even if audio was better, at some point for me personally I need to draw a line.

Of course this is likely unpopular opinion as better audio is always better.
 
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the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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Fair statement, I just am drawing a line for myself as I dislike too many boxes. As of now I have:

CX to EX to M Scaler to Chord Dave to Amp. I feel like if I keep adding any more boxes I will go insane.

Even if audio was better, at some point for me personally I need to draw a line.

Of course this is likely unpopular opinion as better audio is always better.
Yes. The box count can be crazy in digital... I’ve stopped at the one switch for just that reason. Not that I discount others experiences but just that for me optimising cables and resonance control really also comes into play.

The antipodes and also the m scaler however have shifted the state of the game for me.
 
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swatello

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
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Thank you for the respond ana keep thread active.
My vision that the Antipodes’ ssd method is too good for us )))
Coz i have compared sonore optical rendu for tidal/cobuz and Antipodes combo some interesting for me.
My system:
Apple Airport express - standard Antipodes ethernet patchcord - CX - Ral ethernet pathcord to EX - Ral Usb to P2 - Spdif bnc military silver coaxial cable - Sonic Frontiers SFD 2 mK2 Dac (without tubes, i have disabled tubes buffer)
Maybe i will try to use some better ethernet cable from airport to CX
 

Parsons

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Mar 31, 2018
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Wanted to post a follow up now that I think my CX is pretty burned in after about 6 weeks of continual running, with the already-burned-in EX as a renderer between the CX and the P2. The P2 is feeding I2s to my PS Audio Directstream. I have a Netgear switch with optical out feeding an Uptone Audio EtherRegen optically, then a SOtM dCBL-CAT7 cable feeding the CX for network connectivity. I don't have a special ethernet cable between the CX and the EX--just a short one that shipped with the CX or EX I think. My SSD in the CX is a Samsung Pro that hosts my library locally, although I stream from Tidal and Qobuz a majority of the time now with very, very satisfying results (to the point where I am not too concerned about buying everything on CD and ripping to a hard drive at this point).

I was asked to try the EX alone vs. the CX alone vs. the CX/EX combo, so I have done that this morning. I'm now back to the combo where I will stay.

There is a noticeable loss of "bigger, more enveloping" soundstage when running just the EX or the CX standalone vs. running them as a combo. I will be honest, I didn't think the EX sounded that different than the CX by themselves in my system...both sound fantastic as stand-alone boxes to me, don't get me wrong. But the combo, as reported by most, is another level of improvement. I had been running an OpticalRendu as the renderer previously, and that is an improvement over either one-box-Antipodes solution I think, but the two-box improves the sound even further. The OpticalRendu is great, but it's going into my 3rd system now (I have one in my second system already).

I am not convinced the the P2 is yet adding even further to the sound quality necessarily, but it's definitely not worse. I just realized that the EtherRegen can take a word clock input, so for fun I may track down a cable and try the word clock out on the P2 into the EtherRegen--although I don't know what effect clocking back upstream will have if any (positive or negative).

Also, I hoped to NOT have HQPlayer running in the chain, but I did a fairly extensive several hours of back and forth using my Stax headphones, and for me, HQPlayer running with Roon is a pretty big improvement in clarity and microdynamics over Roon alone. It is a bit less noticeable through my speakers, but still quite preferred. Curious if others found the same with the Antipodes combo? I have preferred HQPlayer running on all 3 Roon servers I've had over the years vs. Roon alone. BTW, I greatly preferred feeding the PS Audio Direcstream DAC PCM vs. DSD from HQPlayer, which I guess was a surprise.

For two other data points on the CX/EX combo, I have two friends who demo'd and then bought EXs to start. Both then independently demo'd CXs, and reported hearing immediate and significant improvements over just the EX (they don't know each other, and I don't think I influenced their findings because both were very skeptical to even try a CX, not believing it could further improve things over what they already got with the EX). One ordered the CX and the other one says he will shortly.

So I guess in my immediate audio circle, 3 for 3 preferred the combo.
 
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DeMarko

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Mar 27, 2020
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My vision that the Antipodes’ ssd method is too good for us )))
Coz i have compared sonore optical rendu for tidal/cobuz and Antipodes combo some interesting for me.
My system:
Apple Airport express - standard Antipodes ethernet patchcord - CX - Ral ethernet pathcord to EX - Ral Usb to P2 - Spdif bnc military silver coaxial cable - Sonic Frontiers SFD 2 mK2 Dac (without tubes, i have disabled tubes buffer)
Maybe i will try to use some better ethernet cable from airport to CX[/QUOTE]


I agree that Antipodes went a loooong way to optimize their servers' SSD playback.

Could you please clarify "Coz i have compared sonore optical rendu for tidal/cobuz and Antipodes combo some interesting for me." ?
 
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