Any point running vinyl on new recordings?

Tim F

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Jun 11, 2018
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Given the new recording masters are typically all digital, does a turntable make sense for these? I know older records, recorded and mastered in analogue can sound better on vinyl. What’s your view? I listen to almost all newer music.
Thanks Tim
 

docvale

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Please allow me to give you an answer that is not audiophile at all.
If you like owning records, the ritual of placing them on a platter and spinning them, the process of listening to an entire record (thus following the artist’s view of his/her composition) rather than skipping from song to song, well, that’s enough for me to buy records.
You might lose in practicality of the process and maybe you might not be that orthodox in your quest for sound quality, yet you should put your pleasure above the audiophile rules.
Just my 2 cents.
 

timztunz

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Apr 23, 2018
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Given the new recording masters are typically all digital, does a turntable make sense for these? I know older records, recorded and mastered in analogue can sound better on vinyl. What’s your view? I listen to almost all newer music.
Thanks Tim
To answer this for myself all I had to do was listen to a CD of Donald Fagen's "Nightfly" and then the One Step. But it will also heavily depend on the comparable quality of the two paths out through the amps and speakers.
 

rando

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Consider an alt-country singer plopping down in the studio with a hitmaker crafting their sound. For SiriusXM and Apple ad campaigns. Full studio magic treatment that is digital from start to finish with level of polish evident on singles. audio-file music

Then a spazzy electro-wünder using 80 years worth of new and abandoned equipment who knows what is going on cassette, vinyl, and digital only formats during the entire process. Making a different mix for each if the same track is going out across all of the above. Audiophile music.



The type of music you listen to could make a difference as will your playback equipment (and room). If format isn't self evident with a bit of thought.

If format is actually a concern in a market increasingly leading towards artist driven sales that hand over the digital copy at POS upon purchase of any physical format. Reach out to a few of them if they are still connected with their audience (not selling 1B albums of new releases).

Buying A & D copies of a few albums to perform a comparison somewhere is not a bad idea. The level of equipment and ability to combine it could very well be the deciding factor after all of the above.

Journey > Destination :)
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Given the new recording masters are typically all digital, does a turntable make sense for these? I know older records, recorded and mastered in analogue can sound better on vinyl. What’s your view? I listen to almost all newer music.
Thanks Tim
Hi Tim,
There are too many variables for a simple reply to your question. Starting with digital sources IMO there's a major difference between streamed/computer digital playback and physical digital media played on a competent CD/DVD player, that choice alone has a bearing on how digital compares to vinyl. Record players aren't plug & play and to get any type of quality sound a certain amount of expense and setup expertise is required something that you should keep in mind. Speaking for myself even as very biased highend turntable manufacturer and reseller when purchasing new digitally recorded music I go with the CD over the vinyl. Generally speaking at best I find a digital vinyl version only different from the CD sound if not inferior and when I opt for the vinyl copy it's mostly for the reasons that @docvale mentioned and not sound quality. I'll even go further and say that when it comes reissues of older music, specially jazz, I'll buy an early transfer CD over the majority of the so called "audiophile" reissues on heavy vinyl.

I hope this helps but you have to be specific about the front ends and recordings if you want a yes or no answer.

david
 

Tim F

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Jun 11, 2018
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Hi Tim,
There are too many variables for a simple reply to your question. Starting with digital sources IMO there's a major difference between streamed/computer digital playback and physical digital media played on a competent CD/DVD player, that choice alone has a bearing on how digital compares to vinyl. Record players aren't plug & play and to get any type of quality sound a certain amount of expense and setup expertise is required something that you should keep in mind. Speaking for myself even as very biased highend turntable manufacturer and reseller when purchasing new digitally recorded music I go with the CD over the vinyl. Generally speaking at best I find a digital vinyl version only different from the CD sound if not inferior and when I opt for the vinyl copy it's mostly for the reasons that @docvale mentioned and not sound quality. I'll even go further and say that when it comes reissues of older music, specially jazz, I'll buy an early transfer CD over the majority of the so called "audiophile" reissues on heavy vinyl.

I hope this helps but you have to be specific about the front ends and recordings if you want a yes or no answer.

david
This is very helpful, appreciate your advice here.

I have found in my time with vinyl, that it typically only sounds better (not just different) on older analogue recordings. I was looking to see what people thought. I find running both a digital and vinyl rig at the high end very expensive, so I have all but dropped vinyl, although I am often tempted to pick it back up. I appreciate the labour of love and ceremony from vinyl too. It is however a pain to clean records and setting up a deck takes hours and hours of work. :)

Thanks all for your perspectives!
 

timztunz

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Apr 23, 2018
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Chop

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Hi Tim,
There are too many variables for a simple reply to your question. Starting with digital sources IMO there's a major difference between streamed/computer digital playback and physical digital media played on a competent CD/DVD player, that choice alone has a bearing on how digital compares to vinyl. Record players aren't plug & play and to get any type of quality sound a certain amount of expense and setup expertise is required something that you should keep in mind. Speaking for myself even as very biased highend turntable manufacturer and reseller when purchasing new digitally recorded music I go with the CD over the vinyl. Generally speaking at best I find a digital vinyl version only different from the CD sound if not inferior and when I opt for the vinyl copy it's mostly for the reasons that @docvale mentioned and not sound quality. I'll even go further and say that when it comes reissues of older music, specially jazz, I'll buy an early transfer CD over the majority of the so called "audiophile" reissues on heavy vinyl.

I hope this helps but you have to be specific about the front ends and recordings if you want a yes or no answer.

david
This is the most...sensible & balanced comment I've read about this "should I go vinyl" question in ages.
 

Addicted to hifi

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Given the new recording masters are typically all digital, does a turntable make sense for these? I know older records, recorded and mastered in analogue can sound better on vinyl. What’s your view? I listen to almost all newer music.
Thanks Tim
audiophile lps from high quality labels sound amazing but most commercial lps sound very average, no better than cd.
 

Bartolo

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Jan 31, 2019
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We run digital and vinyl but not having an old 'legacy' vinyl collection as many do, we are very selective about acquiring LPs -- mainly because we do not want to end up with a room or wall full of records! So this self-imposed constraint absolutely colors the choice of media format for new music acquisitions here.

After acquiring very good very early pressings of the 70's rock and Beatles we grew up with on vinyl (turned out to be about 125 lp's), now it's pretty much only excellent analog-transfer jazz that I buy on vinyl. Maybe 1 LP a month. I have a friend who really knows music and buys much more new vinyl than I do; he shoots me recommendations when he gets something new in that's great. (Great is a combo of the performance and the sound.)

We have a new record storage unit on order that'll hold about 250 lp's. It will provide a pretty hard limit on the size of the vinyl collection here at home.
 

Salectric

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audiophile lps from high quality labels sound amazing but most commercial lps sound very average, no better than cd.
In my experience, many if not most so-called audiophile LPs have an artificial sheen that makes them less natural sounding than older reissues. From his post above, I suspect @ddk hears the same thing.

I recently was clearing out my Dad’s last remaining records following my mother’s move to assisted living, and I came across his old copy of Duke Ellington’s “Masterpieces.” Recorded in 1951, mono of course, Dad’s copy had been played many, many times and was stored in its original cover without a sleeve. When I got home, I put it on my table with some trepidation but from the first notes it was clear this was an amazing record. Sure there were some ticks and pops and some inner groove distortion (I don’t think Dad ever replaced the needle on his mono cartridge).but the music was just glorious! Warm, rich, vibrant, present and direct. Incredibly involving. This was from a very early pressing, if not 1951 then surely close to it. The cover had a price sticker that read 22cents! So this superb sound quality was from a record mastered and pressed 70 years ago.

Of course “Masterpieces” was recently reissued by Chad Kassem and I have that version as well. I haven’t compared it yet to my Dad’s copy but I do know the reissue never impressed me the way the old beat-up original did.
 

Atmasphere

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Given the new recording masters are typically all digital, does a turntable make sense for these? I know older records, recorded and mastered in analogue can sound better on vinyl. What’s your view? I listen to almost all newer music.
Thanks Tim
These days I tend to listen to a lot of newer music too.

When we're given a digital master file for an LP project, we ask if there is a version of it that lacks DSP. Quite often there is. One common DSP function is compression, used simply because there's an expectation that the recording will be played in a car. So with the non-DSP file we can cut an LP that is more dynamic (and sometimes more transparent too- depending on the DSP...). I know we're not the only ones doing this, but its a roll of the dice on any given recording. Some sound just like the CD and others don't.

At any rate if looking for a new recording I always look for the LP first.
 

Rensselaer

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In my experience, many if not most so-called audiophile LPs have an artificial sheen that makes them less natural sounding than older reissues. From his post above, I suspect @ddk hears the same thing.

I recently was clearing out my Dad’s last remaining records following my mother’s move to assisted living, and I came across his old copy of Duke Ellington’s “Masterpieces.” Recorded in 1951, mono of course, Dad’s copy had been played many, many times and was stored in its original cover without a sleeve. When I got home, I put it on my table with some trepidation but from the first notes it was clear this was an amazing record. Sure there were some ticks and pops and some inner groove distortion (I don’t think Dad ever replaced the needle on his mono cartridge).but the music was just glorious! Warm, rich, vibrant, present and direct. Incredibly involving. This was from a very early pressing, if not 1951 then surely close to it. The cover had a price sticker that read 22cents! So this superb sound quality was from a record mastered and pressed 70 years ago.

Of course “Masterpieces” was recently reissued by Chad Kassem and I have that version as well. I haven’t compared it yet to my Dad’s copy but I do know the reissue never impressed me the way the old beat-up original did.
Herein lies the answer to the question posed by the starter of this thread. As stated, those few re-recordings in pure analogue of great recordings of the past often don’t sound as good as the originals (and very expensive as well).

LPs made today are digital to vinyl, because it is cheaper and easier.

The thread starter implies he is younger and didn’t experience analogue recordings in his growing up, so we can assume two things: 1. the music he grew up with is readily available in digital format, 2. there would be no legendary analogue pressings of music contemporary to him out there to generate enough interest so that high end manufacturers would re-press a pure analogue recording from the master tapes (assuming there are master tapes), which wouldn’t sound as good as the best recordings of the 50’s and 60’s anyway.

Why spend the money on LP playback equipment if the only LPs of music he is familiar with were recorded to vinyl from a cd? Instead buy a streamer and perhaps a spotify account.
 
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PeterA

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audiophile lps from high quality labels sound amazing but most commercial lps sound very average, no better than cd.

I find that decent recordings on vinyl usually sound better than audio file remasterings on thick vinyl. Even early pressing re-issues are better. It is mostly about the music anyway.
 

Al Stewart

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My experience with "new" music, digitally recorded, and then pressed on vinyl records hasn't been pleasant. The vinyl quality is spotty, the compression mostly always present. A 16/44 CD of the same material generally sounds equal to or better than its pressed LP. Frankly, I don't think these records are worth the wear on my cartridge.
 

Addicted to hifi

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I find that decent recordings on vinyl usually sound better than audio file remasterings on thick vinyl. Even early pressing re-issues are better. It is mostly about the music anyway.
We have a shop called audiophile reference recordings and he stocks lots of high quality vinyl and this is were I buy them from.he is a expert and recommends me some lps every time I visit.I don’t own any normal commercial lps as I don’t like the sound of most of them.
 

Addicted to hifi

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My experience with "new" music, digitally recorded, and then pressed on vinyl records hasn't been pleasant. The vinyl quality is spotty, the compression mostly always present. A 16/44 CD of the same material generally sounds equal to or better than its pressed LP. Frankly, I don't think these records are worth the wear on my cartridge.
I agree with you.I have being disappointed to many times and don’t buy them anymore.
 

wbass

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Though not as experienced as many on here, my 2 cents: I stream digitally recorded or mastered music. And when I can get a good AAA pressing or original or good re-issue of an analog recording, I often prefer the LP.

Specifically, I enjoy 50s/60/70s jazz on vinyl. There just seems to be more bite and presence. For whatever reason, a lot of older jazz stuff, when mastered for digital (CD or streaming), just ends up sounding a bit too neutral or lifeless to me. Un-involving, for lack of a better term. No doubt, this is partly b/c the likes of Van Gelder and DuNann, back when, recorded and mastered to get a hotter sound on playback. But I find I often prefer good recent jazz re-issues on LP, too.

That said, plenty of amazing digitally recorded jazz. Albums like Ron Miles' Rainbow Sign or the Neil Cowley Trio's Touch and Flee, for example, sound friggin' amazing on streaming. I don't see much point in etching a digital file into a record, especially when pure digital can sound so damned good.

I've not dabbled in SACDs, as CDs no longer interest me. Or, anyway, they don't have the cool, hold it in your hands, put in on the platter vibe of LPs. I guess part of messing around with vinyl, to me, is the vibe and perhaps also the fun/madness of collecting. LPs can be beautiful objects, and it's nice to unplug sometimes and have an all-analog evening in more ways than one.

To a certain extent, this is true for me with older rock stuff--Neil, Van, Fairport, etc.--but for jazz, vinyl just feels right. I'm not much into classical, but if I were, I think I'd mostly stream it.

Focusing on mostly one genre also keeps me from going nuts buying records.

Again, my 2 cents. Analog can be maddening, but when it clicks, damned fun and pleasurable.
 
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astrotoy

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I really like digital files that are at the original master level. For example, Reference Recordings 174/24 files are the original master files. Also very high resolution digital files, like those from NativeDSD - like their DSD256 files are very fine. Copying to lower resolution doesn't give me the same sound experience. In my experience, you need to have a DAC that can operate at those resolution levels and not down sample.

I am speaking of recent files recorded originally in digital. If you have older analogue recordings, I strongly prefer safety masters of the master tapes. Even second generation copies made on excellent pro machines are much better to my ears than SACD copies of the tapes (usually copied from production masters of the same generation of the safety masters).

Superb CD remasters can be excellent, like many of Winston Ma's CD's. However, Winston spent a lot of time and money hiring the best engineers to do the remastering - not the mass production remastering at the lowest cost that many companies have done reissuing their back catalogues.

Really talking about classical and some jazz. Not talking about any recent pop/rock stuff of which I am ignorant.

Larry
 

Bartolo

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Ive made the decision to focus my record collection on (A) early pressings of what to me are 'classics,' which means mostly 70's rock, and (B) newer 'audiophile' pressings of jazz classics that are well-reviewed and mostly if not entirely all all-analog.

I made this decision because I 'lost' my records from the 70's and 80's long ago and did not want to amass a collection of many hundreds or thousands of records. I own almost 150 lp's and add maybe one every few months. I have a very good digital player as well; a curated home server collection of about 1800 albums and now I also pay for Qobuz.

I rely on reviews (more so one those of one good friend who has excellent ears and taste and has been in hi fi for decades) because I don't have the patience to buy blindly. Nor do I have the patience to spend hours flipping in a record store.

Right now for almost all new releases I rely on Qobuz. But I did buy a few months ago those new hi res Pink Floyd digital releases. In retrospect they sound almost as good on Qobuz as from my home Roon Nucleus but I wanted to own them. Those are the first digital files I've purchased in quite a while.
 

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