Anyone have experience using GIK’s design service?

[tony22]

I finally have had enough time listening in my renovated sound room to take the step of trying to get some reasonably useful sound treatment in place. While I’ve been in this hobby for 40+ years, and I’ve even read up on room treatment and such, and I know how to use REW, I make no claim to knowing how to take any of that and figure out what the right treatments are that need to go where in the room. I don’t want to spend the next part of my life figuring it out, nor do I want to convince myself I know how to do this, buy some stuff, and then proclaim success

I’ve known of GIK since they started, hiving met them many years ago at AXPONA. I asked John if he could help, and he asked for my room info, speaker placement, some REW scans. He’s in the process of working up some recommendations, but has anyone else gone through this with GIK? I’d like to hear if anyone has results they can share.

 

[properlydeafened]

I did several years ago. I sent REW sweeps as well. What came back was relatively generic...start with corner bass traps, add first reflections, etc. along with which products to consider. We did have a good discussion on full range vs limited corner bass traps and I followed their recommendation on the limiters. Very friendly, and I like the products...but I didn't find the recommendations to be really any different than what most room treatment guides have to say. I also have a small room and wasn't a particularly big project either.

 

[Gunnar]

I had contacts with them 5 years ago. I didn’t go forward. They needed REW as starting point. I bought the Omni microphone but I was not even capable of making the calibration.. ….. So stopped.

Never the less I asked them to give me a proposal. After some mail conversations it was concluded that I would not get a proposal as my “listening room” is part of a big room ( as the letter “L”) and was very difficult to analyse without information from REW They said it was too complicated to evaluate and give a reliable recommendation. Fair point.

My impression was also. Same recommendations as room treatment guides. Their products seems OK. So with reliable REW analysis and a not too complicated room, for me, they are ok.

For complicated rooms, at least for me, I think its safer with a home visit. I ended up having a specialised company in room treatments measuring my room. I followed their recommendation. Worked very well.

 

[tony22]

Thanks @properlydeafened, I appreciate the reply. My room is kind of small as well. The one thing that made me scratch my head was the recommended speaker placement. I had spent a lot of time in my untreated room trying to find where the best location would be for speakers plus seating. I even used two different online tools (found on the Soundton and Hunecke.de sites) to help me. I wound up, after much listening, with a roughly 33% type placement. GIK’s recommendation is to place my speakers 2’ closer to the front wall. To me, that’s kind of creating more of a problem I’m trying to address. It certainly would make my low end more boomy (no jokes please! ). But, like you I found their treatment recommendations to be pretty good. I just don’t know quite enough about that end of it as I’d like, so I figured I’d give then a try.

@Gunnar, I’ve used REW for quite a while so I was comfortable with getting them that part of it. I agree - a complicated room should be done with an on site visit. My room, while not purpose built, is the right sized rectangular and symmetrical room in my house that I could dedicate to listening. So it was pretty straightforward, but getting some insight from folks who do this for a living could be helpful, I figured.

 

[PerfectCircles]

I don't know about their service, but I have called them several times for product reccomentdaions and they were very helpful.

I have ordered a variety of their products for both listening room and recording studio and have felt them to give EXCELLENT results and their customer service has always been extremely responsive.

Again, I don't know about their design services, but I could not be more pleased with their products overall and they give charts on their products to help you decide which is the right one for you. Just my personal opinion.

 

[properlydeafened]

GIK's design 'service' is obviously primarily a sales tool to assist people with reasonable recommendations...it's certainly no substitute for an in person consultation where solutions can be tried, measured, moved around, etc. That's not a criticism of GIK, it's just the reality of a sales lead mechanism that has to be manageable at scale (with a lot of people just 'kicking the tires').

The fact that they declined to guess in @Gunnar situation (without REW sweeps) reinforces my impression that they seem to be 'good people'. They could have guessed to make the sale but that's really not in the best interest of either party. In theory they could try to model it based on dimensions, but with a free service at scale they can't...they need REW sweeps to look for the typical issues and then make recommendations from their catalog playbook. Again, not a criticism, it's free after all.

Speaker placement is tricky and there are a lot of variables. My de Capos are a departure from the norm in that you can't toe them in for example. I did what you did...found the best spot with no treatment, measured, treated, moved around again based on my subjective happiness with the outcome. I spent a lot of time measuring, adjusting, and moving around my REL sub to try to fix obvious bass suck out problems (small rooms suck...pun intended). I ended up behind and inside the left speaker, not the typical corner placement. So...I think GIK follows what they think usually works, and short of sending them REW sweeps of a bunch of speaker positions, we can't really fault them.

Overall I think we're all essentially saying the same thing. They'll get you close based on well established room treatment guidelines, and then you have to tweak to what sounds best to you. They seem to be good people with good products.

My room certainly measures better (far from perfect) following the treatments and sub adjustments...it also sounds better to me. That's a win I think.

 

[Gunnar]

I agree. We are saying the same thing. I fully agree with no suggestion is better than a bad one.

Without being an expert I think the exact position of the loudspeakers are close to impossible to calculate correctly. The recommendations from the manufacturer must also be taken Into account.

i am very pleased with my room treatment. The specialist (HOFA) came twice. First to recommend, then to reconfirm. i did my room treatment 5 years ago and since then I have made “a few“ upgrades. As a consequence I needed to adjusted the position of the loudspeakers.

 

[DetroitVinylRob]

Yah but, last year I reached out to GIK with a fully detailed roomle model and REW sweeps. The response was a generic, “just buy as many panels as you can afford and/or are aesthetically willing to tolerate and put them in the room”. No real placement recommendations beyond “load up the side walls”. Which ironically do not have direct reflection lines back to the sweet spot. Yawn.

Guess I was hopeful for a bit more…

GIK’s products are fine, they work, and are a sound value. Shipping is a bit shoty. But I took the leap, and bought about a dozen panels initially. Set them up at first reflection points, and in bass rich areas of the room according to common wisdom.

And you know?

I did manage to accomplish some modest improvements that were well worth the asking price. My room sounds better and measures better.

Lesson: the room is the elephant. And perhaps nothing short of an “in room” evaluation and tweaking by an acoustic engineer will perfect the space your music plays from.

 

[tony22]

The response was a generic, “just buy as many panels as you can afford and/or are aesthetically willing to tolerate and put them in the room”. No real placement recommendations beyond “load up the side walls”.

Wow, that’s not been my experience at all. Would you feel comfortable telling us which designer was helping you?

 

[DetroitVinylRob]

Wow, that’s not been my experience at all. Would you feel comfortable telling us which designer was helping you?

I really would not feel comfortable making a name public. Live and let live in this case. I just found it kind of lazy and technically vapid. But I also realize room acoustics is truly quite complicated. Especially offering remote recommendations. Perhaps I was also not knowledgeable enough to guide the recommendations better. Like I say, I had hoped for more with room curves and a 3-D layout as a reference.

 

[Three quid]

I had the same experience as Detroitvinylrob a couple years ago with GIK’s service. They made a drawing of my room and loaded as many of their panels as they could on all the walls, corners, and ceiling. It was a useless exercise.

 

[tony22]

DVR, understood.

@Three quid, what did you wind up doing as an alternative?

 

[Macattack]

Recently reached out to GIK, providing room measures and pictures along with the offer to provide REW data. The response was to use adsorption at all first reflection points (side walls, ceiling hips and ceiling center), floor to ceiling bass traps in all corners. Simple, well known and proven strategies.

The consultant favored adsorption over diffusion as it is more broad band. He offered their more aesthetic products if I wanted that but they don’t offer any improved performance over their bass 242 and 244 fabric covered panels.
Moral - Basic advice will almost always be to place adsorption at all first reflection points as a starting point. Bass traps in all corners. Add adsorption at secondary reflection points as needed/desired/possible. Key is to balance the room.