Anyone with big, high current amplifier(s) find a power conditioner that doesn't destroy the amplifier's virtues? Is it even possible? Which Ones?

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2010
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#1
Most power conditioners suck the dynamic life out of amplifiers. Anyone find a power distributor that works great with high-current amplifiers?
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
8,086
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E. England
#2
Caesar, go balanced power. All ups, no downs. My £300 Airlink 3kVA BPT stomped all over my old £4.5k Burmester 948 conditioner.
 

BlueFox

Member Sponsor
Nov 8, 2013
1,175
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Silicon Valley
#3
Shunyata. No issues at all. Well, there is improved sound, dynamics, etc., but that isn't an issue.
 

Vienna

Active Member
Oct 14, 2018
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Athens Greece
#4
My Torus AVR is a perfect match with the Mephisto
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,481
505
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#5
my Equi=tech 10WQ 10kva balanced wall panel system seems to do full justice to my 550 watt into 8 ohm darTZeel 458's just fine.

i've tried the standard outlets sitting right next to my balanced outlets (easy to A/B) and it's no contest as far as dynamics and refinement. not even very close.
 
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Bodhi

Active Member
Apr 20, 2014
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Melbourne, Australia
#6
I use a Gigawatt PC-3 SE Evo conditioner which i've found is one of the few non-current limiting conditioners. There are many reasons for that, but having a-b compared running my Vitus amp direct to wall vs plugged into the Gigawatt, I clearly preferred the latter.
 

asiufy

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Jul 8, 2011
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almaaudio.com
#7
I've had other conditioners that were non-limiting, so I think we're past that. The Niagara is a good example.
But the first one to actually *boost* dynamics, and make the amp sound freer, more open and relaxed, was the Gigawatt PC-4 Evo+.
With the two D'Agostino Momentum plugged, plus ARC preamp (+ sources), it's crazy dynamic. The DAC loves it too.
It's now a permanent fixture in our reference room.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
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Eastern WA
#8
Yes, been building them for years.

The problem is if your gear has a bad filter on it that's incompatible, or if getting rid of harshness sounds like less dynamics to you. A lot of people expect music to be dynamic that seemed like it was previously, but it was mostly problems making it sound that way. If you're older and hearing is declining you may not hear the harsh side at all, it might be a benefit.

Basically I'm saying it can be very hard for someone to judge dynamics. Sometimes you learn your stereo needs improvements when you have clean power (at least to get *back* to where you were in some characteristic).
 

Bodhi

Active Member
Apr 20, 2014
681
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Melbourne, Australia
#9
I've had other conditioners that were non-limiting, so I think we're past that. The Niagara is a good example.
But the first one to actually *boost* dynamics, and make the amp sound freer, more open and relaxed, was the Gigawatt PC-4 Evo+.
With the two D'Agostino Momentum plugged, plus ARC preamp (+ sources), it's crazy dynamic. The DAC loves it too.
It's now a permanent fixture in our reference room.
Your above response implies the Gigawatt PC-3 SE Evo model I referred to is only non-current limiting. In fact, like the PC-4 Evo+ it delivers equal and stable power distribution regardless of the load on any of the conditioner’s outputs & has a double buffering circuit with compensation cells with enhanced capacity which improves the impulse response with non-linear loads like power amplifiers, and levels the difference between input and output power of the conditioner, thereby improving dynamics. You should get your facts straight.
 
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asiufy

Member Sponsor
Jul 8, 2011
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San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
#10
No, that's not what I wrote. I said the FIRST, not the ONLY one, that boosts dynamics. I never mentioned other products in the Gigawatt line, as, indeed, the PC-4+ was the first one from that line that I've heard. Others came later.
I'm sorry you misread what I wrote. I do get my facts straight, as I represent the brand, and very proudly so.
 
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bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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London
#11
That's already 7 to 8 recommended.

As long as we keep it in single digits
 
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Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
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Eastern WA
#12
Fun factoid...

No conditioner has ever actually limited current unless it had a fuse that popped or a breaker that switched during playback. The reason a conditioner might have a socket with a lower current rating is because regular use would melt something. What does happen is with saturation of components not spec'd correctly for the current, is voltage drops that correspond directly with the music. It sounds awful when that happens. And it's rampant among a lots of products.
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
11,261
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Manila, Philippines
#13
Fun factoid...

No conditioner has ever actually limited current unless it had a fuse that popped or a breaker that switched during playback. The reason a conditioner might have a socket with a lower current rating is because regular use would melt something. What does happen is with saturation of components not spec'd correctly for the current, is voltage drops that correspond directly with the music. It sounds awful when that happens. And it's rampant among a lots of products.
Voltage fluctuations from the wall in general I might add. I remember throwing away my voltage display as it caused too much anxiety LOL That was a decade ago. I got tired of having to live with under and over voltage or waiting for when the nearby mall closed for the night.

I've gone battery.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,859
105
63
#14
My Torus AVR is a perfect match with the Mephisto
Interesting...are you concerned the Mephisto will have problems with the Torus? Years ago, i melted a power conditioner with my Antileon.

How can i 'know' that there is sufficient capacity in the Torus or any other such conditioner? Thanks!
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
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Eastern WA
#15
Voltage fluctuations from the wall in general I might add. I remember throwing away my voltage display as it caused too much anxiety LOL That was a decade ago. I got tired of having to live with under and over voltage or waiting for when the nearby mall closed for the night.

I've gone battery.
Well, when it's not tracking with the music identically, with lower and higher voltages in the same passage... (like with saturation) it's not nearly as offensive. What happens in our gear when voltage falls on its face you'll hear the obvious flatness to it! The capcaitors in the gear won't be able to charge, they just won't be able to maintain the voltage necessary. Where as a good PSU is designed to work on more than one voltage (a range near the expected voltage). 115v won't be likely to droop below what's needed for the music, even if 120v is the norm and it may go up to. Voltage regulation in and of itself hasn't proven to equal sound quality. It's usually the higher PSRR, lower noise, that stuff that comes along with voltage regulation that improves things.
 
May 30, 2010
15,076
473
83
Portugal
#16
Interesting...are you concerned the Mephisto will have problems with the Torus? Years ago, i melted a power conditioner with my Antileon.

How can i 'know' that there is sufficient capacity in the Torus or any other such conditioner? Thanks!
Torus has power conditioners with many ratings - the local distributor of Gryphon was recently using two Mephysto mono's with a Torus AVR 16 CE (230V /16A) and was very pleased with it.
 
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JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
11,261
235
63
Manila, Philippines
#17
Well, when it's not tracking with the music identically, with lower and higher voltages in the same passage... (like with saturation) it's not nearly as offensive. What happens in our gear when voltage falls on its face you'll hear the obvious flatness to it! The capcaitors in the gear won't be able to charge, they just won't be able to maintain the voltage necessary. Where as a good PSU is designed to work on more than one voltage (a range near the expected voltage). 115v won't be likely to droop below what's needed for the music, even if 120v is the norm and it may go up to. Voltage regulation in and of itself hasn't proven to equal sound quality. It's usually the higher PSRR, lower noise, that stuff that comes along with voltage regulation that improves things.
True, true. I like the part about flatness the best. Good way to describe it.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
644
257
63
#18
Most power conditioners suck the dynamic life out of amplifiers. Anyone find a power distributor that works great with high-current amplifiers?
Are you meaning to differentiate between power conditioners and power distributors? The thread title suggests you're not but your sentences speak to each. Most responses seem oriented to power conditioners. Granted that some products self-labeled as power distributors include some form of conditioning.

I'm interested in power distributors without conditioning. What criteria or feature set should one look for in a power distributor without conditioning? OFC outlets? Copper buss system or point-to-point? High gauge steel chassis?

Does adding protection such as an electronmagnetic circuit breaker and/or surge/spike protection impinge on dynamic current delivery? While some types may be filters, is the use of such considered power conditioning?
 
May 30, 2010
15,076
473
83
Portugal
#19
8(...) Voltage regulation in and of itself hasn't proven to equal sound quality. It's usually the higher PSRR, lower noise, that stuff that comes along with voltage regulation that improves things.
It depends a lot on the equipment and mains characteristics. IMHO we have not data enough to support the "usually". Unfortunately most (yes, almost all) people get conditioners without first getting a proper mains diagnostic.
 
Apr 15, 2017
151
11
18
Cascais
#20
or if getting rid of harshness sounds like less dynamics to you. A lot of people expect music to be dynamic that seemed like it was previously, but it was mostly problems making it sound that way.

I agree. It boils down to one's interpretation of what sounds better. Personally i dislike any type of series or parallel filters and a large number of "well regarded" power cords too. Dynamic killers. Others dislike any form of voltage regulation within the equipment. It all boils down to personal preference and it's impossible to generalise.
 

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