Are there more differences than similarities between CH Precision and other top Swiss brands?

Mike Lavigne

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here and there. I did fire them up 2 weeks ago when I had 35 people from the audio club here.

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=...=C484D43F51FF73DD!215399&cid=C484D43F51FF73DD

the ML3's (with SRA Virginia Class stands) are going up for sale when I get the time to do it. I've scratched the itch. I could never deny what the ML3's uniquely deliver for a particular subset of music.....and it was the right thing to do to have had the total privilege to be able to spend extended time with them. they are the real deal...…..and were 100% of what I expected.........I won't look back wondering about tubes again. I've seen the best from tubes in the context of a high efficiency, full frequency, large-scale system (adding the VAC Statement 450's as an additional data point).

but i'm also excited now that I've added the Tana active isolation under the dart mono's, and i'm over the moon on what that does. in a few months those will go in for the upgrade from 458 to 468 level.
 
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spiritofmusic

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I’m really not surprised Mike. As you always said, those Lamms were great in so many ways, but your Darts just kept on going w no apparent ceiling, glass or otherwise.

Do tubes having a glass ceiling qualify as a pun?

Mike, like you wanting to see if you could scratch your tubes itch, w me the last few years has been partly to see if I could scratch my horns itch, or if I’d still prefer to stick w my Zus.

I’ve heard v impressive Cessaro Liszts, ongoing exposure to superlatively sounding AG Duos, and a bleeding edge set of crazy full range Pnoes.

I’ve really loved what they all do, but have realised that for this particular audiophile, w this particular music collection, and this set of listening biases, they’re not for me in the final analysis.

Horns itch finally scratched.

More interestingly maybe is whether my predeliction for SETs is going to be challenged by my visit to hear a Soulution SS chain powering 106 dB/1m efficient Maxonics field coils.

I always said I’d rather die than go back to SS from my Nat 211s, but I’ve heard Bakoon SS drive Cessaro Liszts w full range of emotions, and Concert Fidelity SS drive ML Spires panels superbly, and on both occasions did not for one moment “miss” tubes.

Maybe late on in my audiophile “career” I’ll absolutely love high power Soulution SS in these v high efficiency Maxonics.

Then I’ll have an interesting audio mid-life crisis .
 
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Elliot G.

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+1.

on moderately efficient speakers such as the Nola Grand Reference the best solid state will do most things better than tubes in my experience. of course not all would agree.

OTOH when you get into over 95db efficient speakers then you introduce low to moderate power tube amplifiers which have their special things they can do uniquely well so it's not quite as clear a complete advantage depending on the room, music and personal tastes.

I also agree on the 'staying on' part. switching back and forth from my tube amps to the darts; the tubes are 95-98% after 45 minutes to an hour, the darts take a day or two to settle and really breathe.

I have found that every single SS amp I have used will dramatically improve if left on for a few days. I live in Florida and this is hard to do in the Summer with all the storms but it is quite evident the sound diminishes after shut off and then a restart the next day.
I was hoping to hear the Dart's at Munich or Axpona but they were not there. I bought the CH and I am thrilled with it. I just visited the factory and they truly have their act together .
 

microstrip

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I have found that every single SS amp I have used will dramatically improve if left on for a few days. (...)

Unfortunately I have to agree with this statement - it is also my experience with SS, and one reason why usually I avoid it. The cost of electricity is not significant but the heat of, for example, two Lamm's M1.2ref left continuously on is unbearable to me. Do you know what is the idle power consumption of the M1?
 

Elliot G.

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Unfortunately I have to agree with this statement - it is also my experience with SS, and one reason why usually I avoid it. The cost of electricity is not significant but the heat of, for example, two Lamm's M1.2ref left continuously on is unbearable to me. Do you know what is the idle power consumption of the M1?

No I don't however leaving the amp on does not cause any heat issues in my room
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Unfortunately I have to agree with this statement - it is also my experience with SS, and one reason why usually I avoid it. The cost of electricity is not significant but the heat of, for example, two Lamm's M1.2ref left continuously on is unbearable to me. Do you know what is the idle power consumption of the M1?

no concerns for heat issues from the dart 458's. my room has very effective dedicated HVAC. I've lived with them now for 6 years always on standby when I'm not listening. and 9-10 months of the year the outside temps are cool to cold.......so the room temps are assisted by the darts at idle.

2 weeks ago I had 30 listeners in my room and the HVAC had no issues keeping it at 72 degrees for 3-4 hours......whether ML3's or the darts.
 

ashandger

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Jun 15, 2013
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here and there. I did fire them up 2 weeks ago when I had 35 people from the audio club here.

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=...=C484D43F51FF73DD!215399&cid=C484D43F51FF73DD

the ML3's (with SRA Virginia Class stands) are going up for sale when I get the time to do it. I've scratched the itch. I could never deny what the ML3's uniquely deliver for a particular subset of music.....and it was the right thing to do to have had the total privilege to be able to spend extended time with them. they are the real deal...…..and were 100% of what I expected.........I won't look back wondering about tubes again. I've seen the best from tubes in the context of a high efficiency, full frequency, large-scale system (adding the VAC Statement 450's as an additional data point).

but i'm also excited now that I've added the Tana active isolation under the dart mono's, and i'm over the moon on what that does. in a few months those will go in for the upgrade from 458 to 468 level.

Hello Mike, would it be possible for you to expand on the impact of the Tana active isolation on the Dart 458s performance? What were you using before the Tana? Are you using Evolution Acoustics mains cables with them? Would appreciate your feedback. Many thanks
 

Mike Lavigne

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Hello Mike, would it be possible for you to expand on the impact of the Tana active isolation on the Dart 458s performance? What were you using before the Tana? Are you using Evolution Acoustics mains cables with them? Would appreciate your feedback. Many thanks

it's more explained here on the Taiko Tana thread. maybe read through that and then please ask any questions there.

thanks.

I was using Box furniture amp stands. I will be selling those.

and yes; I do use the Evolution Acoustic TRPC (triple run power cords) with Furutech NCF plugs on the dart mono blocks.
 

rockitman

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Class A biased (not AB) SS amps are the SS amps where residual heat in the room can be an issue and must be taken into account. My Pass XS-150 consume 1300 watts or so at idle and really heat the room. I turn them off daily at the end of the night. I give them 2-3 ours warm up time to sound their best prior to a listening session.
 

ashandger

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it's more explained here on the Taiko Tana thread. maybe read through that and then please ask any questions there.

thanks.

I was using Box furniture amp stands. I will be selling those.

and yes; I do use the Evolution Acoustic TRPC (triple run power cords) with Furutech NCF plugs on the dart mono blocks.

Many thanks for the feedback. Just read your comments on the Taiko thread...very helpful. Thanks
 

RCottin

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Oct 21, 2017
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Hi, I have been traveling and just notice this thread.
In my case change from tubes to SS initially came mostly due to amp reliability. Ref 750SE are great, but it has 17 KT150 tubes and that is a lot to manage. To really find 16 well matched tubes is not easy and at the end only ARC was able to supply them. When decided to change amps, opted to change pre amps as well in order to mantain as good synergy as possible among components. The choice for CH started by their phono section, which is among the best there is out there today, and from there choose the other components. I was sold on the amp when I listened to it at Priaptor’s. I was familiar with his system and liked how the CH amp raised the level of his already excellent set up in ways I was not expecting. Soulution was not really I choice for me because they do not have a really relevant phono section. Now after spending some more time with my CH gear, can say that ARC is still really great, but they are more of a “one sound” kind of set up (even though a good one) and CH has a lot more range of presentations depending on the source and ancillaries. What matters most to me which is the lifelike, lifefull presentation of ARC is still there with CH, but you also get more extention, definition and details to go with. Finally, CH seems to go great lenghts into having the least possible signature on its components, which I like because then you can steer your system in the direction ypu like.
 

acek

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Unfortunately I have to agree with this statement - it is also my experience with SS, and one reason why usually I avoid it. The cost of electricity is not significant but the heat of, for example, two Lamm's M1.2ref left continuously on is unbearable to me. Do you know what is the idle power consumption of the M1?

My CH Precision A1 draws 70W on idle (and while playing at low-moderate volume) and stays stable around 45-50C. I suspect the M1 is close, maybe 2x or less? You can double-check with CH Precision; I did before getting my A1, got a response from Florian Cossy himself on a Sunday morning!
 

Elliot G.

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My CH Precision A1 draws 70W on idle (and while playing at low-moderate volume) and stays stable around 45-50C. I suspect the M1 is close, maybe 2x or less? You can double-check with CH Precision; I did before getting my A1, got a response from Florian Cossy himself on a Sunday morning!

The M-1 also runs in the 45-52
 

ariescerat-espana

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The M-1 also runs in the 45-52

Can the CH amps run as A and A/B (selectable)? My (Lower Fi) Plinius SA-103 does this, and it works great. I use some full Class A in the winter months, and it does sound a bit more organic. In A/B is still sounds great, slightly faster maybe, tighter bass, but barely gets warm on the heatsinks.

In Class A it uses about 850 watts of power according to my P10 power regenerator.

I leave the amp on 24/7, been like that for 5 years except vacations time. It takes 3 or 4 days to come on song. I think this aspect to power amps is the big capacitors and transformers, they have to fully charge and 'settle'.

I had SETS before this power amp, and don't feel I miss much, certainly bass, dynamics and control are better. But I haven't heard the Aries Cerat SETs yet.......:b
 

christoph

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I had SETS before this power amp, and don't feel I miss much, certainly bass, dynamics and control are better. But I haven't heard the Aries Cerat SETs yet.......:b

Be careful what you wish for. Once you heard the AC, there is absolutely no going back to Plinius :rolleyes:
 

ariescerat-espana

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Be careful what you wish for. Once you heard the AC, there is absolutely no going back to Plinius :rolleyes:

Yeah yeah, I know, now I want to kill myself....:mad:
 

Ron Resnick

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With that kind of efficiency you have to go very high quality SS amps. Most SS amps have high-ish distorion at low power output. When you have higher power output the distortion levels go down, not like some tubes which gradualy increase with output power.

Solid-state on high-sensitivity horns? My dear Max might you be suffering from Tube Derangement Syndrome? ;)
 

ariescerat-espana

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Solid-state on high-sensitivity horns? My dear Max might you be suffering from Tube Derangement Syndrome? ;)

Interesting point. I am of the opinion the 'first watt' is the most important, where we hear the micro details and leading edges of the music. Tubes seem to excel at this aspect. The best designed SETs IMO can also drive to very high levels on the right speakers, usually horns or horn hybrids.

On low power SS amps that are pure class A and top notch build / sound, what is there out there? I see so many SS amps that go for insane power delivery first...

Having said that, it is fascinating to me why correctly designed 'low powered' SETs can sound so dynamic and - well loud!:rolleyes:
 

spiritofmusic

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Well, the best I've heard horns has been on 15W Class A SS, w Class D powered lower bass horns.
 

bonzo75

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Solid-state on high-sensitivity horns? My dear Max might you be suffering from Tube Derangement Syndrome? ;)

Actually, there wasn't much advantage to the valves we heard over the AG amps on the trios.

And I have compared Luxman integrated, Vitus integrated, and airtight 300b on bespoke horns with TAD drivers made in Italy. The Luxman sounded the best, though the virus sounded the best on the tannoys. Of course, if we had we could have tried a nice 833c amp and that might have sounded better, who knows. Some including Jack Roberts did move to first watt SIT from SETs
 

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