Audio research pre-amp and VTL pre-amp

[Bergonzi]

Hi. I am starting out with Sabrina x speakers and think I have narrowed my search to VTL and Arc, based on reading. Unfortunately I can’t test drive used models where I am. I can afford used say a VTL tl 5.5 ii or say a reference 3 or GSpre AR. I would love a phono pre and have heard the VtL phono pre amps are great, but I also heard from someone that they love wilsons and Ar combinations. I suppose the phono part while important is 2nd for me to the sound of the pre amp when streaming. I think I want a musical SS amp so that I don’t get swimmy in the bass so I am thinking tube as a Pre. And a PASS amp to go with it. Advise welcome

 

[Ron Resnick]

Welcome to WBF, Bergonzi!

Both ARC and VTL phono stages and preamps are widely admired.

Hopefully our Wilson Sabrina X experts can weigh in on the pros and cons of the proposed electronics chains, and suggest amplifiers. i

This is only my opinion as someone who uses high power tube amplifiers, but the current generation of ARC and VTL amplifiers don't, to my ears, have problems with flabby bass on cone woofers. Some of the VTL amplifiers even offer variable damping.

Maybe decide first on the amp you want to drive your speakers, and then figure out ARC or VTL phono stage and line stage as the second step?

Tell us more about the types of music you like most.

Tell us about the dimensions and type of room you will be installing your system in.

 

[Bergonzi]

Hi

Thanks for your reply. I am new to all of this. I did hear a boulder integrated amp with the sabrina x and an AR 75 se. My only other tube experience was with the MAC 275 on the B&W 803 which I liked. Before the 275 on the same speakers I listened to 2 mono block MAC amps and really disliked the sound. It was night and day for me.

I am a professional violinist in a symphony orchestra but I like all types of music. To my ears when the AR 75 was pushed up big with a loud symphony orchestra recording there became a slightly mushy/flabby/inarticulate lower end. I did LOVE the sound though with vocals and jazz and say piano violin combo in sonatas. The boulder amp was tighter to my ears when pushed but I did not hear the same warmth as in the AR. So I was advised that my combination might be a tube pre amp and SS amp.
My room is 10 foot ceilings and about 20x 15 wide space. But there is a galley kitchen being and 10 foot hallway to the door. Plenty of furniture. Its medium live, we like to play string quartets in here as it has a nice acoustic. Since I have a Monolith amp with 200 watt ( i of course plan to upgrade that soon) i figured I could start with the Pre-amp tube paired with it to see if I get some of that voluptuous sound I heard with the AR. Maybe thats just dumb of me, not sure. Does a tube pre-amp give some of that warmth? The PASS idea came from someone who said it is a very musical power amp and would pair well with a great tube pre.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That is wonderful that you are a professional violinist! We may call upon you to assess the naturalness of the violin reproduction of our stereos!

Forgive me, so you do or do not have the Sabrina Xs presently? (I thought from your first post that that was the piece you have presently in place.)

ARC makes their wonderful 275 watt stereo amp if the 75SE did not exert enough control over the woofers.

When someone likes the woofer control of a solid-state output stage but likes the midrange and treble of tubes I might suggest the hybrid (tube input stage, solid-state output stage) Aesthetix Atlas Stereo amplifier. Some people feel that hybrid amplifiers can be the best of both sonic worlds, especially if the speakers present in some way a challenging load.

I am certain our members with specific experience on your proposed speaker/amplifier combinations will weigh in.

Your room is a good size!

You have a fun and educational electronics journey ahead of you! It may get confusing at times, but, unlike many of us, you have a fantastic sonic compass to guide you: you know professionally what musical instruments sound like!

 

[Bergonzi]

Thanks for the suggestion. I would love to hear that atlas amp. I chose the sabrina x after hearing them. They will be delivered soon. So I have not heard them in my space yet. I just wanted to have great gear to set them up with!

 

[Bobvin]

The SabrinaX is a terrific speaker. I had a neighbor who had Sabrina driven by D'agostino phono, preamp, and stereo amp—components often used with much, much costlier speakers. There is a lot of performance to be had from your speaker choice. I personally drove my Alexias with an ARC Ref75 for several years and there is some real beauty there, but as you say can get congested when pushed or with really complex music. I am now using ARC Ref160 monos and they have good control of the Alexia—though the Alexia sing with more power, so a reasonably high power SS amp isn’t a bad way to go with Wilson. I also had Ref3 preamp for a time, then moved to REF10 pre. If you are comfortable with the used market I’d advise Ref5SE or Ref6 which make great sound, and your thoughts of PASS amp—I’ve not heard this pairing but have read of many who love that sound paired with ARC preamp. Some PASS amps tilt a little heavier (warmer) than others, though I don’t have personal experience I’m sure PASS owners can advise.

 

[markramler]

Thanks for the suggestion. I would love to hear that atlas amp. I chose the sabrina x after hearing them. They will be delivered soon. So I have not heard them in my space yet. I just wanted to have great gear to set them up with!

I own the VTL TL 7.5 series iii and I currently have as a loaner the VTL TL 6.5 series II while my 7.5 is upgraded. If you go the VTL route make sure you purchase the latest version as their upgrades do take their preamps to the next level. I like the hybrid units as they are compatible with most amps. I own Lamm M1.2, Pass 250.8 and Krell Evo amps and both the 7.5 and 6.5 sound right to me with my Wilson Alexia, Duette and Sabrina speakers, respectively. I have not compared to ARC. I did prefer the Lamm LP2 to the VTL TP 6.5 but that was the older series of the 6.5.

 

[Bergonzi]

Thank you Bobvin for that info. If I could plop 22 k down on the new AR ref6SE and AR ref 160s amp I probably would as it would probably be plenty of everything. Yes indeed I am wanting used as I think that I will get the most bang for my buck. I am thinking of trying to get that bit of tube sound through a tube pre-amp (if it works that way?) as it seems more unclear when it comes to power for tubes for what I am looking for. It seems ARC changes models often which for some reason might play to my FOMO if I am several modes behind their current. I read some people were really upset after getting a 6 pre towards the end right before the 6se came out at just about the same cost. Tricky for some newby like me trying to be on top of things!

 

[Bergonzi]

Thanks Markramler. Those updates within a series means I have to send it back to the manufacturer for an update? Like if I had bought a tl 5.5 ii or tl 6.5ii from a few years ago, the same model if purchased new today would actually be different? If so what do those updates cost, how often do they occur and how much does that usually cost to do? Thanks!

 

[markramler]

Thanks Markramler. Those updates within a series means I have to send it back to the manufacturer for an update? Like if I had bought a tl 5.5 ii or tl 6.5ii from a few years ago, the same model if purchased new today would actually be different? If so what do those updates cost, how often do they occur and how much does that usually cost to do? Thanks!

Generally the increase in price from your model year includes the upgrades, my 7.5 has had a few upgrades from 2012 and the retail price has increased 50%. The upgrades are generally not minor and bring the preamp to a new level. I would contact VTL with the serial number to get that info before I would buy a preowned model. The best bang for your money would be purchasing the latest model if possible.

 

[dbdb]

Hi, I have a pair of SabrinaX speakers. I drive them with a Gryphon Diablo 300. Gryphon and Wilson works well for me.

 

[Pacha]

I can't add anyting on the VTL end of things but, I've been an ARC owner of many pieces since my first SP6 and D79. I currently have and really like the Ref Phono 2se, Ref Line Stage 5se and a Ref 150 amp.
I think you would like the ARC products a lot.

 

[skids929]

Curious to know what you landed on for a preamp with your SabX.