Audio Research Ref 6 vs Pass Labs XP 22/ XP 30

alfa100

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2014
262
49
258
South Africa
I have MSB Analog DAC running direct to Pass Labs XA100.8.
Faced with The Dilemma of Choice.

REF 6 demo or XP 22?

XP 30 is closer in price to Ref 6 but is brand new.
Also. read that XP 22 is closer to XS preamp than XP 30.

Kindly share YOUR EXPERIENCE.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,521
10,687
3,515
USA
I own the XA160.5 and XP22. I used to own the XP20 and did directly compare it to the XP30 in my system. With my amps, I actually preferred the XP20 to the XP30. The amps are slightly warm tonally, and I found the XP30 also slightly warm. The combination was a bit too much. The XP20 was more neutral and I preferred that balance. With the XA100.8, the XP30 might be a better match. I now have the XP22 which also has a fairly neutral tonal balance and it is quieter and more resolving than the XP20 was in my system. I think it all comes down to matching with your particular amp. Of course, the XP32 would probably be the best of the bunch, but it is brand new and more expensive.

I think it comes down to which combination you prefer, the XA100.8 and the 22 or the 100.8 and the 30. The 22 does have the volume control from the 30. I would contact Mark at Reno or Pass labs directly and ask them about those two combinations.

I have no experience with the Ref6.
 
  • Like
Reactions: alfa100

alfa100

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2014
262
49
258
South Africa
Persuaded the dealer to bring the Audio Research Ref preamp 6 to my home . Had it for 2 days and found the upper bass overpowering, especially the bass guitar. Midrange had meat and bones but lost accuracy .Voices sounded sightly veiled. Tops and lower bass rolled off. This in comparison to MSB DAC direct to power amp In my system in my room To my ears. Now to persuade the Pass Labs dealer to demo the XP 22 in my set up.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,521
10,687
3,515
USA
Persuaded the dealer to bring the Audio Research Ref preamp 6 to my home . Had it for 2 days and found the upper bass overpowering, especially the bass guitar. Midrange had meat and bones but lost accuracy .Voices sounded sightly veiled. Tops and lower bass rolled off. This in comparison to MSB DAC direct to power amp In my system in my room To my ears. Now to persuade the Pass Labs dealer to demo the XP 22 in my set up.

Thanks for sharing that impression. I hope your local Pass dealer can supply the XP22. If new, it will need a while to break in. If your local dealer can't get it, Reno will send you one to try in your system. You have to buy it, but if you don't like it, you just pay for return shipping and they refund your money. From your description, I suspect the Pass will sound more even tonally.

I met a guy who used his MSB DAC direct into his amps and switched as soon as he tried a good active preamp. I don't know what model MSB he has. I have heard the better models have better built in preamps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: alfa100

KeithR

VIP/Donor
May 7, 2010
5,144
2,812
1,898
Encino, CA
I've owned the Analog dac - its internal volume control isn't particularly good. You should definitely run a a full-fledged preamp with it.

I've heard ARC Ref 10 with the Premier and Reference dacs sound wonderful - haven't tried a Ref 6 with one though.
 

alfa100

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2014
262
49
258
South Africa
I've owned the Analog dac - its internal volume control isn't particularly good. You should definitely run a a full-fledged preamp with it.

I've heard ARC Ref 10 with the Premier and Reference dacs sound wonderful - haven't tried a Ref 6 with one though.
Did you try the Premier DAC DIRECT to power amp. I’ve been thinking of upgrading DAC rather than adding preamp. the Premier DAC is a lot of $$$$ but I can consider if ....
 

JimmyS

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2013
163
34
335
Chicago, IL
I have the XA160.8 and had a XP20. Auditioned the Ref 6 and it was not for me, but then I was able to audition a Ref10 and couldn’t believe the preamp was made by the same company. It didn’t leave the house.

I also have auditioned the XS preamp when I had the XA100.5 and it was another great preamp, but have not heard it on the .8’s.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
Jimmy, congrats on the REF10... I believe I mentioned that you'd love it :)
The REF6 is a more traditional warm/rich tube preamp, while the REF10 retains that character, but is quite a bit more open/neutral/transparent.
Also, both pre-amps, but the REF6 in particular, requires a lot of burn-in time, like 500 hours. And it's a rollercoaster ride, with ups and downs until you reach around that mark.
Enjoy :)

cheers,
Alex
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobvin

tony22

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2019
557
239
133
62
I have the XA160.8 and had a XP20

Jimmy, what do you think about the combination of a .8 amp with a Pass pre from the ".5" amp design era?
 

JimmyS

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2013
163
34
335
Chicago, IL
Jimmy, what do you think about the combination of a .8 amp with a Pass pre from the ".5" amp design era?

I thought it paired well, and the XP20 was in my system for a long time. It is neutral sounding without being cold/analytical. It really helped me hear the differences in the 100.5’s to the 160.8’s when I made that change.

My system is in a smaller room, and as my system evolved I noticed a potential short coming in my setup. The sound image would move forward as I turn up the volume, and move back as I turned down the volume. Tried playing with speaker position and wasn’t able to solve that. I then began trying other pre amps, and I noticed the image remained more stable independent of volume. I was waiting patiently for the XP32, but ended up really liking the Ref10.
 

JimmyS

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2013
163
34
335
Chicago, IL
Jimmy, congrats on the REF10... I believe I mentioned that you'd love it :)
The REF6 is a more traditional warm/rich tube preamp, while the REF10 retains that character, but is quite a bit more open/neutral/transparent.
Also, both pre-amps, but the REF6 in particular, requires a lot of burn-in time, like 500 hours. And it's a rollercoaster ride, with ups and downs until you reach around that mark.
Enjoy :)

cheers,
Alex

Thanks Alex. Yes, I remember our Axpona conversation and you were spot on.

I need to plan a CA trip... The new YG speaker caught my eye, as I’m considering what’s next down the road.. M2 (ugh the $$$), Rockport Avior II, YG Vantage
 

tony22

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2019
557
239
133
62
I thought it paired well, and the XP20 was in my system for a long time. It is neutral sounding without being cold/analytical. It really helped me hear the differences in the 100.5’s to the 160.8’s when I made that change.

Jimmy, did you post your impressions of the differences between the .5 and the .8 anywhere? I'd like to see these, or hear about them if not yet posted.
 

JimmyS

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2013
163
34
335
Chicago, IL
Jimmy, did you post your impressions of the differences between the .5 and the .8 anywhere? I'd like to see these, or hear about them if not yet posted.
No, but my short summary is that they are faster, control my speakers better, bass is much more defined, and the Lows/Mids/Highs are more balanced. PeterA has a great writeup on the .5 vs .8 and his findings are spot on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeterA

hifinutt

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2020
76
24
73
64
Used to have the ref 5se , it was the only bit of kit my wife (who is not interested in hi fi )wanted me to keep. The sense of realism was breathtaking , take a very good pre amp to beat it. Aiming to get another one day unless something better like silbatone comes along !!
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing