Best material for turntable belt

[Vienna]

Hi guys,

I wonder, whether anyone has gone deeper in alternative materials for turntable belts.
I read recently a paper for o rings and new different materials are not in production which are more suitable for dynamic applications. These materials have abrasive resistant qualities and they are bagging resistant.

Has anyone tried such materials?

 

[ddk]

Hi guys,

I wonder, whether anyone has gone deeper in alternative materials for turntable belts.
I read recently a paper for o rings and new different materials are not in production which are more suitable for dynamic applications. These materials have abrasive resistant qualities and they are bagging resistant.

Has anyone tried such materials?

I did research different materials and elasticity, the belt type and width does affect the sound but it doesn't mean that the same belt is universally suitable for all tts. One thing that holds true is that minimalist belts have less of an effect on sound if the tt can be driven with one.

david

 

[Vienna]

Thank you David,
What is the material you are using?

 

[ddk]

I like string best followed by narrow solid nylon weave belts like micro seiki ones but you can’t use them with all tts.
david

 

[Solypsa]

Try dyneema. It's all an experiment....

 

[ALF]

Bavarian sewing string...magic with the big Micro Seiki TTS.

 

[theophile]

Leather?

 

[Bruce B]

Dental floss..... unminted!

 

[Vienna]

I am reverting back on this subject.
For those with belt driven turntables of any kind (rim drives ect) just try EPDM material !

It makes really huge difference

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

AJ Conti at Basis did some research on this subject and developed a precision belt, that made a solid improvement on my Ovation

 

[Vienna]

Almost two years ago I tried for the first time an EPDM belt.

Back at that time I used to own a VPI Avenger Reference and I was tired with the Buna-M belts and their inconsistencies, not to mention the premature wear and cracking.

Back at this period I had tried some alternative materials and namely belts made of Polyurethane, Silicone, Neoprene, Viton to name just a few.

For an unknown to me reason the EPDM was clearly a winner in all aspects. The speed was more consistent and stable, while dynamics , bass and clarity were way better with this material.

On my effort to have the best possible made EPDM belt, I addressed the task to one of world’s leaders in polymer products. The task was to get calibrated EPDM belts with tight size tolerances across the whole length.

These belts offered (and are still offering) an outstanding service.
However until recently I wasn’t aware for the reason behind this positive experience, until the moment that accidentally read a study made by Parker one of the largest producers of o’ring in the world (https://www.parker.com/portal/site/...7575e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN)

At this study Parker is comparing different polymer materials and their properties as drive belts.

At this study it is proved that EPDM is the superior polymer drive material due to the low dynamic stress relaxation combined with very good flex resistance , reliability, abrasion resistance and resistance to high temperatures.

In comparison Silicone and Hypalon demonstrated much higher dynamic stress relaxation (very unsuitable for driving a platter), in addition silicone proved to have very poor abrasion resistance .

Neoprene demonstrated a dynamic stress relaxation similar to the EPDM but is fell short when it came to the flex resistance.

 

[matakana]

Almost two years ago I tried for the first time an EPDM belt.

Back at that time I used to own a VPI Avenger Reference and I was tired with the Buna-M belts and their inconsistencies, not to mention the premature wear and cracking.

Back at this period I had tried some alternative materials and namely belts made of Polyurethane, Silicone, Neoprene, Viton to name just a few.

For an unknown to me reason the EPDM was clearly a winner in all aspects. The speed was more consistent and stable, while dynamics , bass and clarity were way better with this material.

On my effort to have the best possible made EPDM belt, I addressed the task to one of world’s leaders in polymer products. The task was to get calibrated EPDM belts with tight size tolerances across the whole length.

These belts offered (and are still offering) an outstanding service.
However until recently I wasn’t aware for the reason behind this positive experience, until the moment that accidentally read a study made by Parker one of the largest producers of o’ring in the world (https://www.parker.com/portal/site/...7575e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN)

At this study Parker is comparing different polymer materials and their properties as drive belts.

At this study it is proved that EPDM is the superior drive material due to the low dynamic stress relaxation combined with very good flex resistance , reliability, abrasion resistance and resistance to high temperatures.

In comparison Silicone and Hypalon demonstrated much higher dynamic stress relaxation (very unsuitable for driving a platter), in addition silicone proved to have very poor abrasion resistance .

Neoprene demonstrated a dynamic stress relaxation similar to the EPDM but is fell short when it came to the flex resistance.

Where do we get one made up from ?

 

[DasguteOhr]

a little story about belt, motor and bearing. Audiolabor (now Brinkmann) built the Konstant Turntable in the 1980s.
it could be operated in two ways, first with a belt and a bearing the motor constantly regulated the speed.
The second method was a belt, bearing and a platter with paddles that ran silicon oil to create a constant resistance. with this method, the motor hardly controlled the speed at all.
the advantage is you no longer need a complex motor control, and this mode could hardly be heard from the different materials of the belt.
It returned an incredible stability and calm to the sound of the turntable. you could hear a lot more subtleties.
I'm not going to make friends with the next sentence here. The much-touted dynamism of some turntables is that you can hear the constant acceleration and braking of the motor (control) when it is not running against constant resistance.
that's my explanation of why good old turntables with modern motors and better control sound better because they work more accurately
my opinion on the matter.
Pic of Audiolabor Konstant

 

[Lagonda]

a little story about belt, motor and bearing. Audiolabor (now Brinkmann) built the Konstant Turntable in the 1980s.
it could be operated in two ways, first with a belt and a bearing the motor constantly regulated the speed.
The second method was a belt, bearing and a platter with paddles that ran silicon oil to create a constant resistance. with this method, the motor hardly controlled the speed at all.
the advantage is you no longer need a complex motor control, and this mode could hardly be heard from the different materials of the belt.
It returned an incredible stability and calm to the sound of the turntable. you could hear a lot more subtleties.
I'm not going to make friends with the next sentence here. The much-touted dynamism of some turntables is that you can hear the constant acceleration and braking of the motor (control) when it is not running against constant resistance.
that's my explanation of why good old turntables with modern motors and better control sound better because they work more accurately
my opinion on the matter.
Pic of Audiolabor Konstant
View attachment 75171

By" good old turntables " you mean what ? The statement does cover a lot of ground.

 

[Lagonda]

Almost two years ago I tried for the first time an EPDM belt.

Back at that time I used to own a VPI Avenger Reference and I was tired with the Buna-M belts and their inconsistencies, not to mention the premature wear and cracking.

Back at this period I had tried some alternative materials and namely belts made of Polyurethane, Silicone, Neoprene, Viton to name just a few.

For an unknown to me reason the EPDM was clearly a winner in all aspects. The speed was more consistent and stable, while dynamics , bass and clarity were way better with this material.

On my effort to have the best possible made EPDM belt, I addressed the task to one of world’s leaders in polymer products. The task was to get calibrated EPDM belts with tight size tolerances across the whole length.

These belts offered (and are still offering) an outstanding service.
However until recently I wasn’t aware for the reason behind this positive experience, until the moment that accidentally read a study made by Parker one of the largest producers of o’ring in the world (https://www.parker.com/portal/site/...7575e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=EN)

At this study Parker is comparing different polymer materials and their properties as drive belts.

At this study it is proved that EPDM is the superior polymer drive material due to the low dynamic stress relaxation combined with very good flex resistance , reliability, abrasion resistance and resistance to high temperatures.

In comparison Silicone and Hypalon demonstrated much higher dynamic stress relaxation (very unsuitable for driving a platter), in addition silicone proved to have very poor abrasion resistance .

Neoprene demonstrated a dynamic stress relaxation similar to the EPDM but is fell short when it came to the flex resistance.

What are the shape and dimensions of these belts Savvas ?

 

[DasguteOhr]

By" good old turntables " you mean what ? The statement does cover a lot of ground.

Like Micro Seiki, Melcro , Platine Verdier...etc
my favorite belt is gift ribbon a lot of grip, cut and heat sealed. perform the cut digonal as with R2R tape.

 

[Lagonda]

Like Micro Seiki, Melcro , Platine Verdier...etc
my favorite belt is gift ribbon a lot of grip, cut and heat sealed. perform the cut digonal as with R2R tape.
View attachment 75173

Ok, belt drives with heavy platters, we agree

 

[gian60]

Yamamura used Kevlar yarn in his turntable And told me
Was the best he founded after all his trials

 

[Lagonda]

Yamamura used Kevlar yarn in his turntable And told me
Was the best he founded after all his trials

David/ddk giftet me some of that in his latest package, i have not tried it yet

 

[Vienna]

What are the shape and dimensions of these belts Savvas ?

They are round shape with dimensions 290x1.5 mm EPDM70