Best Moveable Small Floorstander?

Fishfood

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We live in a small loft which requires that I move the speakers in and out for listening sessions. Right now I'm using Harbeth 30.1s but I'm looking to upgrade to a really great small floorstander. The just have to be light enough for me to move regularly, so 50 lbs tops I would guess.

Any suggestions?
 

hallcar83

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Hello , If you could give some information it would likely help a lot ....


- Room size?


- What kind of music do you like to listen to??


-- ( this could be helpful as some speakers say do best with simpler music , maybe not as well with Rock, or large Orchestras )....


- How loud do you like to listen?


- How much money do you want to spend? , and how much can you spend? . . . lol.


- Can you move the speakers out from the back wall when listening?


Thank you,
Kind regards, Dean
 

Fishfood

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Thanks for asking Dean:

The room is interesting. It's a loft with a room divider so the speakers sit in the middle of on either side of a 7 ft floor to ceiling cabinet. Overall the room is 24L x 20W.

I listen to everything but rock, mostly jazz and electronic/experimental and blues/folk/country music. Nothing dense though. Occasionally I'll blast it but mostly play at modest listening levels.

I can spend up to $8k. I think. Hopefully. Ask my wife :)
 

Cellcbern

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Thanks for asking Dean:

The room is interesting. It's a loft with a room divider so the speakers sit in the middle of on either side of a 7 ft floor to ceiling cabinet. Overall the room is 24L x 20W.

I listen to everything but rock, mostly jazz and electronic/experimental and blues/folk/country music. Nothing dense though. Occasionally I'll blast it but mostly play at modest listening levels.

I can spend up to $8k. I think. Hopefully. Ask my wife :)
Look at Bache Audio's offerings:

 

hallcar83

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- Hi Fishfood - - LOL, LOL on the name by the way!

- I'm still doing research , I took a look at your equipment to see what you are using - (system matching can be Important) , I know about some of your pieces of audio equipment, and I am doing some research on your other pieces that i am not as familiar with too.


--- I had another question for you,

- do you ever do any wood working... or diy projects??


Thanks , Dean


PS. - I am also looking at the BACHE Audio speakers - very interesting speakers!
 

rando

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That my first thoughts ran towards Cessaro Mini Wagner is surely a sign I spend too much time on this site,

 

rossb

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I highly recommend the Neat Ekstras. Superb speakers which meet all of your requirements.
 

Ron Resnick

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Are Magnepans a possibility? They are light enough to move easily, and they would sound amazing since you can naturally position them several feet from the front wall (the giant cabinet).
 

Gregm

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W Right now I'm using Harbeth 30.1s but I'm looking to upgrade to a really great small floorstander. The just have to be light enough for me to move regularly, so 50 lbs tops I would guess.

Any suggestions?
Can you give us an idea as to where you find the 30.1s lacking, or what you would like more of, or... any sonic clue?
Added to recommendations above, Devore speakers are quite good, relatively light and can play close to walls -- not a bad fit for limited spaces.
 
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DasguteOhr

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Living voice r25 speaker, amazing resolution ,easy to drive from 10 watt it works perfect. Arround 5.500£
 
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Fishfood

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- Hi Fishfood - - LOL, LOL on the name by the way!

- I'm still doing research , I took a look at your equipment to see what you are using - (system matching can be Important) , I know about some of your pieces of audio equipment, and I am doing some research on your other pieces that i am not as familiar with too.


--- I had another question for you,

- do you ever do any wood working... or diy projects??


Thanks , Dean


PS. - I am also looking at the BACHE Audio speakers - very interesting speakers!
No DIY unfortunately. Kinda handy but generally worthless!
 

Fishfood

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Are Magnepans a possibility? They are light enough to move easily, and they would sound amazing since you can naturally position them several feet from the front wall (the giant cabinet).
This is something I've thought of. The height when they are moved off to the side has caused hesitation up until now but I look at used 3.7s and drool a lot. Maybe I need to just buy a pair. It's not like they can't be resold in minutes, especially in today's market.
 

Fishfood

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Fishfood

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Can you give us an idea as to where you find the 30.1s lacking, or what you would like more of, or... any sonic clue?
Added to recommendations above, Devore speakers are quite good, relatively light and can play close to walls -- not a bad fit for limited spaces.
Thanks. I've had the 3XLs and they certainly aren't as good as the 30.1s IMO. I do worship the o/93s although I don't have the right amplifier probably.

I love the 30.1s but I just want more scale and more bass. Would buy 40.1s if they weren't so damn heavy.
 

hallcar83

Member
Nov 8, 2019
9
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Hi fishfood , sorry I have been down with some health issues, have a few long term health problems and then I got a diagnosis of cancer, lol, lol , lol

... some sometimes it all slows me down - but I'm Back Up Again now !

...... then my chrome crashed - ( sometimes I chase too many rabbits and end up with too many tabs open...... and so I lost your tab.... lol ... so I had to use Workona to find you again : )

----------------


- I have some GREAT Speaker Choices for you to check out , that I think offer State Of The Art - Performance today!!

... Here is the first speaker... -- ( with some background info. )

- So there is a lot to be said for using a driver - ( if it is good enough) as a Full Range Driver , then possibly supplementing it with a Tweeter for the very Top end .... and possibly a woofer for the deepest bass if needed , But the devil is in the details and how you implement the concept is everything....

- - This first Speaker is different than the BACHE Speakers , I do like how BACHE has designed their speaker using the idea of having as little crossover as possible in the critical Midrange but , were they have taken an off the shelf driver Tangband driver that diy people have used for quite a while now and done some modifications to it , Most likely is not as good as some of the more State of the Art Drivers available today.


--- so first here are a couple of videos to watch, these speakers have a Custom made driver , I believe it's designed by the Speaker manufacturer himself that is basically run Full Range so as not to have a complex crossover in the drivers pathway that can add distortion and rob the speaker of energy and excitement.



Please watch:

1. -

2. -

3. -


----------------


-- Next up are some drivers from a brand new Audio Company - at least to us , they have actually been in business for a long time but are new here in the US.

- They make several full range drivers that are Amazing, the company is called Lii Audio - ( pronounce Lee Audio) .. And their F15 Driver , and their Silver 10 Driver are used by a company called Decware in their Top of the line Speakers!

- The owner of the company Decware Steve Deckert, is also the designer of their Tube Amplifiers and other audio equipment that they sell , and Steve has been Designing speakers for over 25 years as well ....

- Decware Tube Amplifiers are some of the Best in the world , but they are sold direct because Steve doesn't believe in getting as much as he can for his designs from other Audiophiles / Music lovers ... he thinks charging a fair price that the average guy can afford is the best way to do business, and they have been in Business for over 25 years now...

- I want to share about some information about their Audio Equipment too , but for now we want to concentrate on their Speakers. ....



- Here are several example of the Decware Speakers that use the Liii Audio Speaker Drivers -

--- https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMS.html



. . . . .and here is a thread where Steve talks about the ZF15L Speaker design and his first Prototype , and how it sounded - !!!!

- ( I recommend reading at least the first three or four pages )


-- https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1561942815



........

- One of the cool things about Lii audio drivers is that at this point they are still available to be purchased by anyone , and the F15 Speaker Driver that is used in Decware's ZF15L Loudspeaker is only - $ 399.00 a pair right now!

- so if you have any woodworking ability , or know anyone who does . . . or have a Wood working shop in your area , the open baffle design is pretty simple to build!

- also because it's a fairly simple diy project that many people can take on - there are lots of forums where other audio guys have built the F15 Open Baffle Speakers and then go on to tell what they think about the speaker......... and for many people they say that this is the speaker that they have been looking for for years!

- ( so you if you are interested you can google Lii Audio F15 Speaker , and find audio forums , and also read what other guys think of it too. )


--------



-- There is another Lii Audio Speaker / Driver to look at too ... but I will have to post about that next time -


-- I have to help my girl make dinner , but I'll be back with a few more speakers to look at soon !


Thanks,
Kind regards, Dean
 

Cellcbern

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Jul 31, 2015
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Hi fishfood , sorry I have been down with some health issues, have a few long term health problems and then I got a diagnosis of cancer, lol, lol , lol

... some sometimes it all slows me down - but I'm Back Up Again now !

...... then my chrome crashed - ( sometimes I chase too many rabbits and end up with too many tabs open...... and so I lost your tab.... lol ... so I had to use Workona to find you again : )

----------------


- I have some GREAT Speaker Choices for you to check out , that I think offer State Of The Art - Performance today!!

... Here is the first speaker... -- ( with some background info. )

- So there is a lot to be said for using a driver - ( if it is good enough) as a Full Range Driver , then possibly supplementing it with a Tweeter for the very Top end .... and possibly a woofer for the deepest bass if needed , But the devil is in the details and how you implement the concept is everything....

- - This first Speaker is different than the BACHE Speakers , I do like how BACHE has designed their speaker using the idea of having as little crossover as possible in the critical Midrange but , were they have taken an off the shelf driver Tangband driver that diy people have used for quite a while now and done some modifications to it , Most likely is not as good as some of the more State of the Art Drivers available today.


--- so first here are a couple of videos to watch, these speakers have a Custom made driver , I believe it's designed by the Speaker manufacturer himself that is basically run Full Range so as not to have a complex crossover in the drivers pathway that can add distortion and rob the speaker of energy and excitement.



Please watch:

1. -

2. -

3. -


----------------


-- Next up are some drivers from a brand new Audio Company - at least to us , they have actually been in business for a long time but are new here in the US.

- They make several full range drivers that are Amazing, the company is called Lii Audio - ( pronounce Lee Audio) .. And their F15 Driver , and their Silver 10 Driver are used by a company called Decware in their Top of the line Speakers!

- The owner of the company Decware Steve Deckert, is also the designer of their Tube Amplifiers and other audio equipment that they sell , and Steve has been Designing speakers for over 25 years as well ....

- Decware Tube Amplifiers are some of the Best in the world , but they are sold direct because Steve doesn't believe in getting as much as he can for his designs from other Audiophiles / Music lovers ... he thinks charging a fair price that the average guy can afford is the best way to do business, and they have been in Business for over 25 years now...

- I want to share about some information about their Audio Equipment too , but for now we want to concentrate on their Speakers. ....



- Here are several example of the Decware Speakers that use the Liii Audio Speaker Drivers -

--- https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMS.html



. . . . .and here is a thread where Steve talks about the ZF15L Speaker design and his first Prototype , and how it sounded - !!!!

- ( I recommend reading at least the first three or four pages )


-- https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1561942815



........

- One of the cool things about Lii audio drivers is that at this point they are still available to be purchased by anyone , and the F15 Speaker Driver that is used in Decware's ZF15L Loudspeaker is only - $ 399.00 a pair right now!

- so if you have any woodworking ability , or know anyone who does . . . or have a Wood working shop in your area , the open baffle design is pretty simple to build!

- also because it's a fairly simple diy project that many people can take on - there are lots of forums where other audio guys have built the F15 Open Baffle Speakers and then go on to tell what they think about the speaker......... and for many people they say that this is the speaker that they have been looking for for years!

- ( so you if you are interested you can google Lii Audio F15 Speaker , and find audio forums , and also read what other guys think of it too. )


--------



-- There is another Lii Audio Speaker / Driver to look at too ... but I will have to post about that next time -


-- I have to help my girl make dinner , but I'll be back with a few more speakers to look at soon !


Thanks,
Kind regards, Dean
The thing about Bache is that designer Greg Belman will customize them for you. The Fostex FT-96 EX2 tweeter he uses is state of the art and the Eton woofer upgrade made a huge difference. I have listened to other small wide band drivers at his shop, and the 4" Tang Band is the best I've heard. Mr. Belman says it is the best he's found. With custom cabinet and crossover, and my choice of wiring, my Bache Metro 001 bested all of the Devore models I listened to.
 

daytona600

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Fishfood

VIP/Donor
Jul 12, 2020
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42
Hi fishfood , sorry I have been down with some health issues, have a few long term health problems and then I got a diagnosis of cancer, lol, lol , lol

... some sometimes it all slows me down - but I'm Back Up Again now !

...... then my chrome crashed - ( sometimes I chase too many rabbits and end up with too many tabs open...... and so I lost your tab.... lol ... so I had to use Workona to find you again : )

----------------


- I have some GREAT Speaker Choices for you to check out , that I think offer State Of The Art - Performance today!!

... Here is the first speaker... -- ( with some background info. )

- So there is a lot to be said for using a driver - ( if it is good enough) as a Full Range Driver , then possibly supplementing it with a Tweeter for the very Top end .... and possibly a woofer for the deepest bass if needed , But the devil is in the details and how you implement the concept is everything....

- - This first Speaker is different than the BACHE Speakers , I do like how BACHE has designed their speaker using the idea of having as little crossover as possible in the critical Midrange but , were they have taken an off the shelf driver Tangband driver that diy people have used for quite a while now and done some modifications to it , Most likely is not as good as some of the more State of the Art Drivers available today.


--- so first here are a couple of videos to watch, these speakers have a Custom made driver , I believe it's designed by the Speaker manufacturer himself that is basically run Full Range so as not to have a complex crossover in the drivers pathway that can add distortion and rob the speaker of energy and excitement.



Please watch:

1. -

2. -

3. -


----------------


-- Next up are some drivers from a brand new Audio Company - at least to us , they have actually been in business for a long time but are new here in the US.

- They make several full range drivers that are Amazing, the company is called Lii Audio - ( pronounce Lee Audio) .. And their F15 Driver , and their Silver 10 Driver are used by a company called Decware in their Top of the line Speakers!

- The owner of the company Decware Steve Deckert, is also the designer of their Tube Amplifiers and other audio equipment that they sell , and Steve has been Designing speakers for over 25 years as well ....

- Decware Tube Amplifiers are some of the Best in the world , but they are sold direct because Steve doesn't believe in getting as much as he can for his designs from other Audiophiles / Music lovers ... he thinks charging a fair price that the average guy can afford is the best way to do business, and they have been in Business for over 25 years now...

- I want to share about some information about their Audio Equipment too , but for now we want to concentrate on their Speakers. ....



- Here are several example of the Decware Speakers that use the Liii Audio Speaker Drivers -

--- https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMS.html



. . . . .and here is a thread where Steve talks about the ZF15L Speaker design and his first Prototype , and how it sounded - !!!!

- ( I recommend reading at least the first three or four pages )


-- https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1561942815



........

- One of the cool things about Lii audio drivers is that at this point they are still available to be purchased by anyone , and the F15 Speaker Driver that is used in Decware's ZF15L Loudspeaker is only - $ 399.00 a pair right now!

- so if you have any woodworking ability , or know anyone who does . . . or have a Wood working shop in your area , the open baffle design is pretty simple to build!

- also because it's a fairly simple diy project that many people can take on - there are lots of forums where other audio guys have built the F15 Open Baffle Speakers and then go on to tell what they think about the speaker......... and for many people they say that this is the speaker that they have been looking for for years!

- ( so you if you are interested you can google Lii Audio F15 Speaker , and find audio forums , and also read what other guys think of it too. )


--------



-- There is another Lii Audio Speaker / Driver to look at too ... but I will have to post about that next time -


-- I have to help my girl make dinner , but I'll be back with a few more speakers to look at soon !


Thanks,
Kind regards, Dean
Thanks so much Dean for this great reply! I'm digging into research this weekend and I'll post what my plan is.

I wish you great health going forward!
 
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hallcar83

Member
Nov 8, 2019
9
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Fort Worth , Texas
Cellcbern said

---- " The thing about Bache is that designer Greg Belman will customize them for you. The Fostex FT-96 EX2 tweeter he uses is state of the art and the Eton woofer upgrade made a huge difference. I have listened to other small wide band drivers at his shop, and the 4" Tang Band is the best I've heard. Mr. Belman says it is the best he's found. With custom cabinet and crossover, and my choice of wiring, my Bache Metro 001 bested all of the Devore models I listened to. "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Hi , I understand that the Tang Band Drivers are very good . . . , but consider this : they have been around for quite a while now, they have been used in a lot of different Speakers, both buy Audio Companies who make production Speakers for sale , and by a lot of diy people out there .... and the consensus seems to be they are great but there are better drivers out there.....

- Two Very Good , Top Tier audio companies - Boenicke who are World Renown . . . and SOUNDKAOS who are also World Renown Speaker companies - - Both of their Speaker Designers used Tang Band speaker drivers at one point in several of their speakers that won Top Honors..... But both Designers eventually Switched out the tang band speaker Drivers for Custom made drivers that were made to their specs.... why would they make that choice?

- Both Speaker designers said while the Tang band drivers were very good they Both felt they could be improved on....

--------------------

Cellcbern --- Question - did you go read the links I provided ... and did you watch the video links that I provided - Or just respond to my post???


- There are a lot of very good speakers out there...... So how do you find the best to look at....?

- I am stuck at home and have been for fifteen years, Audio is my main hobby and I spend Hours a day , every day out on the internet trying to find the best Speakers out there for myself ......

- So the speakers I'm going to recommend are the top ones I've been able to find..,

-------------

---- But we all like different things in a Loudspeaker..... Personal preferences make a Huge Difference in Speaker choices.... the more Fishfood can tell me about what HE LIKES in a Speaker the Better too!

- And I'm not done yet there are several other Speakers that I am going to recommend that Fishfood looks at to consider...

--------------


- The problem with where we are today in Audio is most of the Brick and Mortar Audio Stores are gone.... so it is almost impossible to actually hear the speakers that you are interested in... Especially when there are so many different speaker to choose from.......

- So the internet is what we have to use... I try to come at things from as many angles as I can, I read several of the Print Audio magazines , I try and watch as many Online Audio Equipment Reviewers as I can , I try to read as many different Audio Forums as I can ....

....... And I watch and read as many different sources as I can who go to all the Big Audio Shows - to see what Speakers really interested them at the Audio Shows . . . . . . I use all of these sources to track down the Best pieces of Audio Equipment that I can ..... I spend 7 to 12 hours a day out there looking around - and since I have been sick stuck inside mostly in my gravity chair for the last 15 years ..... I've done a lot of research.
- and no your right before you get to say it ...... I don't have all the answers - I'm sure there is a lot of Audio Companies , and in this situation a lot of Speakers that I don't know about.... but these are the best I can find..

- we all have different tastes , we all listen to different kinds of music , we all have different rooms that we listen to our Audio System in -------- ( which by the way can make some of the biggest differences in how Good our Audio Systems and specifically our Speakers can sound ) .... everyone's going to give different recommendations....

- So recap - these are the ones I am personally interested in that I think are probably some of the best in the world - at least at the price point we are talking about...

---------------

[ Personal Note -- Unfortunately I am a perfectionist and for me it's a pain in the butt .... I keep thinking I should look around more there might be something better out there.... lol, lol ]
[ - My other problem is we are on a very limited budget , I have been saving for 15 years because I can only save a little each year so I'm trying not to make a mistake. Unlike a lot of audiophiles I can't just sell what I bought last year to try the next thing.... ]

--------------

- There are better speakers out there, but most cost a Lot more money than the price Bracket we are in... but sometimes If you can find them Used you can make the step up to the next level too. . . .

--- As an Example , one of the Premier Audio Speaker companies - Sonus Faber just came out their - Electa Amator III Speaker , both a stand mount and New for them a Floor Standing version of the Loudspeaker but it's $ 10,000.....

--- Also an Audio company called NSMT Loudspeakers makes several Astounding Speakers, that have Blown away reviewers and Anyone who has heard them ... but the best , their Model One is $ 12,995 .......... ( although they do make several lower priced speakers as well ) -- I'm just not as familiar with some of those lower priced models....


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

-There are some Great Sounding Speaker Drivers out there - And another really Great Alternative is if you can do some woodworking , or have a friend who can do some woodworking for you , Or if you can find a Local wood working company you can diy some speakers that you can't come close to being able to buy - !!!!!!!!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


- One of the first Speaker choices that I wanted Fishfood to look at were from Jay who is a very good reviewer , he sometimes has a hard time speaking because I don't think English is his first language, - ( sometimes I think I must sound that way to - LOL )...... but he has worked at a Very high end audio store and he has listened many more times the speakers than you or I have , and he is honest about things and about his perspective, and preferences too, and that can help when you are looking at a Speaker.

- the next couple are from a company called Decware, and also Caintuck Audio , both have recently found a New Company - ( actually it's new to us but it's a family run business that has been around for a long time ) -- and they are selling New kinds of drivers that no one else has been able to make... 15 inch Full Range drivers that can almost do it all... the best way to use them is probably the F.A.S.T system that has become popular lately,

--- FAST - which stands for " Full-Range And Subwoofer Technology " - is close to how the BACHE Speaker company is designing their speakers... the reason that that idea is being used more and more both by some Audio Companies and by diy speaker designers is that the human ear is most sensitive to the midrange frequencies, and the less that gets in the way of the sound in those frequencies the better...
- So for some people if you can find a Fullrange driver that can handle the mid range and the majority of the frequencies on either side like the high - Low frequencies and the low Treble frequencies without a crossover then you may have a a more open sounding speaker.

- a reason to consider the speakers that a company like Decware is selling is they sell a Lot of different speaker designs and Steve the owner there has looked a a lot of different Speakers over 25 years, and he says he has never heard Speaker drivers do what these Lii Audio Speaker drivers can do!!!!!

- The thing to take into account is that Steve is looking for speakers that can sound great with his equipment that he designs and sells - and that range is 2.3 watts , 6 watts , 12 watts , 25 watts , and up to 60 watts... So he is looking for high efficiency speakers. But he is always looking for a Better speaker that can help him evaluate the new pieces of audio equipment he makes, and nothing has come close in 25 years to the new Lii Audio Speaker Drivers.

- If you will go read the fist two or three pages of the Forum Link that I provided you will see just how good these new drivers are and why Steve is so excited about them.... ......... ........ ........

- There are other Great drivers out there that can be used in a FAST Speaker design but the best are much more expensive than the Lii Audio Drivers , CUBE speaker drivers are an example but similar quality drivers are $ 2,500 to $ 5,000 a pair - for just the drivers!!!

- Lii drivers - like the F15 are - $ 399 a pair .... and their Silver 10 driver is $ 1,199 a pair........... a much better value and maybe better drivers too.

--------------------------------------
 

hallcar83

Member
Nov 8, 2019
9
2
10
61
Fort Worth , Texas
Hi Fishfood ,

A couple of more questions ,

--- Do you have sub woofers?

--- Would you say you would prefer a more Musical speaker?

--- or one that is more detailed, and shows all of the little things that can be sometimes glossed over , like a signers breathing , or things happening in the background , etc....?

also how important is Bass to you?

Do you prefer Bass that hits you in the chest ...... or Bass that is accurate tonally ?
------

Best regards, Dean
 
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