Break in period

[jasbirnandra]

Any playback users could you kindly tell me how much play time does it require to get the best from the PB and what actually changes

 

[treitz3]

IMO, this question is a good one but it is also an open can of worms. There are so many things that can change and it depends on what component you are specifically talking about to begin with.

jasbirnandra, could you clarify a bit on what it is you are asking about in terms of break in time?

 

[jasbirnandra]

The people of PB in their manual write that it takes min of 350 to 500 hours and the player shall become more airy and holographic and the base more deep and taut dont know what they meen it shall take at least 6 to 8 months of playtime to actually judge the player and the player if not liked shall give me a huge depriciation on sale

 

[amirm]

I would say if you don't like the sound when you first turn it on, return it. Any improvements should it be there, needs to be above and beyond.

 

[Soundproof]

The people of PB in their manual write that it takes min of 350 to 500 hours and the player shall become more airy and holographic and the base more deep and taut dont know what they meen it shall take at least 6 to 8 months of playtime to actually judge the player and the player if not liked shall give me a huge depriciation on sale

I take it that they therefore have an offer for people to be able to return the player, if they are dissatisfied, after this long "break-in?"

I prefer burn-in to break-in, as the latter has me thinking of something else.
How do components know when to stop burning-in?
How do manufacturers ensure universal compliance between their components, when the products take off on their own?

 

[LL21]

Hi, this all comes down to how good your ears are,and how good your audio memory is, and in both cases they aren't good at all. However, yes, mechanical things...speakers and headphones and cartridges will change with use, but audibility is of course in the ears of the beholder.

Tubes changes almost everytime you turn them on, power tubes can make quite a change in about 100 hours, and these are all measurable things,but then again, against your ears and memory...

Audio components, such as capacitors of some sorts, and solid state devices that begin to heat up, there are measurable differences, but can you hear them, especially as you listen along as they change...

then there are guys who claim the friggen power cord sounds better after 100 hours of break in time....oh my...god, help me.

Tom

In truth, the system changes all the time...the power grid, is the neighbor upstairs using the vacuum cleaner, are the tubes getting older...many people prefer their systems late nite...though i am told it can be due to power use at that time...i also wonder if its because the room may be quieter which lowers the 'noise floor' of the listening experience.

In my own system, typically there is a 5 min window when the treble starts to open up...continues very slightly thru first 30 min. then perfect good...no idea whether that's the tube dac, the tube pre, SS amp or what...i suspect first 5 min is probably the tube DAC seems its generally been the most sensitive to tube swapping, isolation, tube dampers, etc.

The interesting thing is that nearly every time i am working while it is on during late nites or weekends, i look up and say 'whoa'...sound has gone from great to 'whoa'...and it is generally about 3-4 hours after turn on. That is def my Zanden DAC...no idea why, there is this sense of extreme sweetness and depth of tonality that kicks in...and it is always 3-4 hours in.

 

[fas42]

The interesting thing is that nearly every time i am working while it is on during late nites or weekends, i look up and say 'whoa'...sound has gone from great to 'whoa'...and it is generally about 3-4 hours after turn on. That is def my Zanden DAC...no idea why, there is this sense of extreme sweetness and depth of tonality that kicks in...and it is always 3-4 hours in.

I think this is a generic "problem" with DAC circuitry, they always take many hours, up to days, to fully reach optimum performance. My old Yamaha, using ancient BB chips, took 3 days; the current cheapie keeps building throughout the day, right up to switch off. Which is another reason that digital often has a bad name, the components are judged well before they hit their full stride.

And how they "improve" is exactly as you stated: the tonality, "bigness" of the soundstage, sense of naturalness after a certain time appears to go through a transformation, emerging quite enhanced on the other side ...

Frank

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Likely another food fight one of those concepts for which there has to be a simpler explanation maybe a mixture of both adaptation and subtle changes in components characteristics. mechanical items are a different story. I recently repaired a Magnepan SMG whose wire were separated from the mylar and after repair it took a while for the speker to sound right .. There NO bass not imagined no bass there were none and it took a while for the bass to become "normal" . I had a similar experience with a new MG 3.6 a few years ago in which case the bass was regularly flapping on one cut at the same volume after leaving the speaker playing Dafos for a day or two on a loop it never flapped again ... Same cut, same volume position

I can understand mechanical items taking time to ..well. gel .. We audiophiles are very good at assigning almost magical explanations to things and it becomes almost a badge of honor to claim that it took some our items a long time to become great... I find the idea of wires break-in amusing. That of electronic components not so amusing but still ..500 hours for a product to beome good is at least interesting and frankly elicit in me some questions:
I suppose some of us believe that many designers trust their ears.. I am Ok with that , so let's suppose that after 500 hours in the design, the prototype doesn't sound "good" .. so that is another 500 hours to judge the final componant again, and again how does the designer decides that this final product is going to be good ? Magic?
We audiophiles provide the answers to the marketing department of Audio companies ... Break-in ..Long hours of breaking during which we adapt to the sound of the equipment, although I believe there are for the very first hours some changes in some components. I have seen personally electrolytic capacitors oozing liquid after first use and I understand the concept of thermal equilibrium for eletronic components.. Values change with temperature some ...but 500 hours which is about 20 days of playing the darn thing non stop! Pluuuuze!
Oh and by the way I have heard a PB5 before "break-in" and it is one DAC on my list and very high indeed.. One of the best I have yet heard

 

[mep]

Hi, this all comes down to how good your ears are,and how good your audio memory is, and in both cases they aren't good at all.
Tom

I'm stunned that you have the chutzpa to tell someone their ears aren't very good. You and your signature tag line are becoming a huge buzz-kill for those of us who actually enjoy two-channel audio and actually think our ears are pretty damn good.

 

[RogerD]

The people of PB in their manual write that it takes min of 350 to 500 hours and the player shall become more airy and holographic and the base more deep and taut dont know what they meen it shall take at least 6 to 8 months of playtime to actually judge the player and the player if not liked shall give me a huge depriciation on sale

How much does this player cost? If they have some authentic blackgate coupling caps or are using boutique film caps,yes it can have a long break in period. Otherwise a normal break in period would be 50 to 100 hours. It really comes down to the manufacturer's reputation and the products they design and sell.

 

[mep]

Tom-You need to re-read what you said and I quoted. I didn't make it up. You made a blanket statement that our ears aren't very good except the way you worded it made it sound more personal to the poster like you knew he was tone-deaf or something.

 

[amirm]

I'm stunned that you have the chutzpa to tell someone their ears aren't very good. You and your signature tag line are becoming a huge buzz-kill for those of us who actually enjoy two-channel audio and actually think our ears are pretty damn good.

He didn't say anyone's specific ears were not good but that our ears are different. A simple test shows that to be the case. He is also right about auditory memory. Not everyone can remember and compare sounds as good as others.

Please keep the tone positive.

 

[mep]

Amir-I beg to differ. Here is exactly what Tom stated:

Hi, this all comes down to how good your ears are,and how good your audio memory is, and in both cases they aren't good at all. Tom

What part of Tom saying that your ears “aren’t good at all” wasn’t a blanket statement to all of us that are ears aren’t good? I don’t get it. It wasn’t a positive statement on Tom’s part. I’m not the one that said it, but now I’m the problem.

 

[treitz3]

Perhaps Tom didn't mean it the way it was posted. I don't necessarily agree with some of his other statements either just based upon my own experiences but it's his opinion, which he has the right to say. I trust my ears, apparently he does not. Either way, it's all good. Let's just accept it as it is and move on. It's a beautiful weekend. Why waste it on an opinion that you may not necessarily agree with?

Enjoy the music. That's what really matters.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hi

Likely another food fight one of those concepts for which there has to be a simpler explanation maybe a mixture of both adaptation and subtle changes in components characteristics. mechanical items are a different story. I recently repaired a Magnepan SMG whose wire were separated from the mylar and after repair it took a while for the speker to sound right .. There NO bass not imagined no bass there were none and it took a while for the bass to become "normal" . I had a similar experience with a new MG 3.6 a few years ago in which case the bass was regularly flapping on one cut at the same volume after leaving the speaker playing Dafos for a day or two on a loop it never flapped again ... Same cut, same volume position

I can understand mechanical items taking time to ..well. gel .. We audiophiles are very good at assigning almost magical explanations to things and it becomes almost a badge of honor to claim that it took some our items a long time to become great... I find the idea of wires break-in amusing. That of electronic components not so amusing but still ..500 hours for a product to beome good is at least interesting and frankly elicit in me some questions:
I suppose some of us believe that many designers trust their ears.. I am Ok with that , so let's suppose that after 500 hours in the design, the prototype doesn't sound "good" .. so that is another 500 hours to judge the final componant again, and again how does the designer decides that this final product is going to be good ? Magic?
We audiophiles provide the answers to the marketing department of Audio companies ... Break-in ..Long hours of breaking during which we adapt to the sound of the equipment, although I believe there are for the very first hours some changes in some components. I have seen personally electrolytic capacitors oozing liquid after first use and I understand the concept of thermal equilibrium for eletronic components.. Values change with temperature some ...but 500 hours which is about 20 days of playing the darn thing non stop! Pluuuuze!
Oh and by the way I have heard a PB5 before "break-in" and it is one DAC on my list and very high indeed.. One of the best I have yet heard

Agree and have said it before! Less filling vs tastes better.

 

[amirm]

Amir-I beg to differ. Here is exactly what Tom stated:



What part of Tom saying that your ears “aren’t good at all” wasn’t a blanket statement to all of us that are ears aren’t good? I don’t get it. It wasn’t a positive statement on Tom’s part. I’m not the one that said it, but now I’m the problem.

"how good your ears" are is not the same as "your ears aren't good." His statement is a factual one that not everyone has the same hearing acuity. It is an observation and a truthful one. Let's move on please.

 

[MarinJim]

I would say if you don't like the sound when you first turn it on, return it. Any improvements should it be there, needs to be above and beyond.

Kind of like a new partner?

 

[Gregadd]

Just listen.
t's not that hard.

1. You'll need to adjust ypur expectaions.
2. Expect the harhsness to disappear.
3 Expect the system to bloom. Soundstage.
4. It should all finally come together.
Tthere really is no way to predict. It depends on how you do it I recall being extremely disappointed with my M/LCLS. I though aboutnreturning them. Initally power cords made my system sound worse.

 

[MarinJim]

. Not everyone can remember and compare sounds as good as others.

Please keep the tone positive.

What were we talking about? I can't remember.

 

[fas42]

Just listen.
t's not that hard.

1. You'll need to adjust ypur expectaions.
2. Expect the harhsness to disappear.
3 Expect the system to bloom. Soundstage.
4. It should all finally come together.

A criterion I use is whether I can relax with the sound, go with it in an instinctive way. Much hifi has an edge to it, forcing you to comply, to bend to its "will" on how it's gonna tell you what's on the disk. To my mind any system that does that fails -- if it makes me tense in any fashion, especially at high volume, then something's out of kilter ...

Frank