C1+T1+X1 or C1 Mono or something else?

[Emerald]

Hello,

I am a new CH convert (from Naim, Devialet and Vitus).

I am planning to purchase a full CH frontend comprising of C1 + T1(GPS) + X1 + M1.1.

Speakers are not yet decided but I am looking at Focal Scala Utopia, B&W 802D3, Magico A5 or a used Tidal Sunray G2.

When calculating, I found that C1 + T1 + X1 combined is a bit costlier than single C1 Mono (without T1 or X1), which as a dual mono DAC is exceptional.

1) I need your help to share your thoughts on which is the better DAC route $50-70k?
A- C1 + T1(GPS) + X1
B- C1 Mono (without T1 or X1)
C- Buy another DAC like MSB Reference or Nagra HD DAC X (will there be a synergy issue?)

2) Should I upgrade to the $5000 ethernet card or buy a separate streamer like Aurender ?

 

[rsorren1]

Emerald,
Thank you for choosing CH Precision. I have a few suggestions for you. C1 Mono will outperform C1/X1/T1. However, if you are not planning on building a true mono system (M1.1 mono, L1 mono) my advice would be to try the C1/X1/T1 with your M1.1 stereo. I would absolutely consider an L1 pre-amp. If funds are an issue, then consider C1, L1, M1.1 first adding X1s, T1 as funds allow in the future. Remember, you can pursue higher levels of performance at any time by simply adding these components to your configuration. The Ethernet_HD card gets my highest recommendation especially if you are a Roon user. Hope this helps.

 

[Emerald]

Emerald,
Thank you for choosing CH Precision. I have a few suggestions for you. C1 Mono will outperform C1/X1/T1. However, if you are not planning on building a true mono system (M1.1 mono, L1 mono) my advice would be to try the C1/X1/T1 with your M1.1 stereo. I would absolutely consider an L1 pre-amp. If funds are an issue, then consider C1, L1, M1.1 first adding X1s, T1 as funds allow in the future. Remember, you can pursue higher levels of performance at any time by simply adding these components to your configuration. The Ethernet_HD card gets my highest recommendation especially if you are a Roon user. Hope this helps.

Are you sure L1 is better upgrade than T1 and X1 ?

I already have Vitus Rl101 preamp which I can temporarily use.

 

[rsorren1]

What I've advised MANY of our owners is to get the main component blocks in place first: source (C1/P1), pre-amp (L1), amp (A1.5/M1.1). Why? Because in an all CH Precision system the "whole system" is greater than the sum of the individual parts. X1s, T1 will improve performance further. True mono systems are the ultimate in performance. I've never heard a Vitus pre-amp but yes, you can use it temporarily and pursue the C1/X1/T1.

 

[iaxel]

I agree with @rsorren1.
From my experience, C1->L1->A1.5 > C1->A1.5, no contest IMHO.
I highly recommend having the L1 in your CH chain.

 

[Emerald]

I agree with @rsorren1.
From my experience, C1->L1->A1.5 > C1->A1.5, no contest IMHO.
I highly recommend having the L1 in your CH chain.

Could you elaborate on what has changed upon adding L1 ?

C1 is a reference DAC , and at this level should be able to run directly into M1.1. This is not a cheap DAC with crappy digital volume.

Keep in mind my chain is only Ethernet streaming card>C1 as a single source.
No future plan to use turntables.

 

[iaxel]

Nothing is cheap and crappy with CH, that I agree.
In my experience, adding the L1 provided more presence and a fuller sound (a bit more warmth).
I preferred it to the C1 connected directly to the A1.5, which was more lean and flat sounding, again - compared to the having the L1 in this chain. Overall the C1->A1.5 is amazing.
I have no experience with X1 or T1 connected to the C1, but I do believe adding a preamp will have a bigger impact on the overall sound.

 

[exupgh12]

Hello,

I am a new CH convert (from Naim, Devialet and Vitus).

I am planning to purchase a full CH frontend comprising of C1 + T1(GPS) + X1 + M1.1.

Speakers are not yet decided but I am looking at Focal Scala Utopia, B&W 802D3, Magico A5 or a used Tidal Sunray G2.

When calculating, I found that C1 + T1 + X1 combined is a bit costlier than single C1 Mono (without T1 or X1), which as a dual mono DAC is exceptional.

1) I need your help to share your thoughts on which is the better DAC route $50-70k?
A- C1 + T1(GPS) + X1
B- C1 Mono (without T1 or X1)
C- Buy another DAC like MSB Reference or Nagra HD DAC X (will there be a synergy issue?)

2) Should I upgrade to the $5000 ethernet card or buy a separate streamer like AurenderI

I must ask, why connecting such electronics for high-end entry-level speakers?
In my opinion, electronics as you elaborated deserve better speakers.

 

[Elliot G.]

I have had all of these combinations and the C1 mono is the best sounding and it also has the possibilities of going nuts with a T-1 and X-1's later. I did this and just recently sold off some of the parts ( still have a C-1 mono not sold) and purchase the big Wadax.
I also might suggest you check out the Divin Marquis speakers if you get a chance as they IMHO are significantly better than what you are considering.
BTW i do suggest using an L1 no matter which way you go

 

[Emerald]

I must ask, why connecting such electronics for high-end entry-level speakers?
In my opinion, electronics as you elaborated deserve better speakers.

Great question, I have other commitments as I am a father , a manager and a business owner. The speaker mentioned is temporary and I will go up by time.

Me being a gadget man, I am more hyped by the electronics than the speaker itself. Means any speaker will sound it's absolute best on them. Which will give me freedom of testing many until settling on one.

I did do it the other way around in 2017 and didn't like speaker first approach. So many regrets.

 

[TDX]

Are you sure L1 is better upgrade than T1 and X1 ?

I already have Vitus Rl101 preamp which I can temporarily use.

Get L1, add other things later.

 

[Sunny]

CH Precision makes some great products.
If you add a L1 to a system that consists of a C1 you get a true dedicated Dual Monarual Line stage. This component will drop the noise-floor, add depth and space to your presentation and give you truly amazing resolution from your C1 DAC.
I would personally do a C1 and L1 and then add Mono to this chain next ! I do have a retail store and have extensive experience with these individual units. A complete CH System is heaven. Any other pre-amplifier is a compromise. The L1 might be the best product CH Makes in the 1 series.

 

[gian60]

I bought CH in end 2015 and i was first to buy CH in Italy and until today i always have CH and i am very happy of my choice also today after more than 6 years

I bought C1 and A1 mono first,because L1 and P1 was not in production.
C1 had also phono input and i had turntable with phono inside C1 and used a Burmester 969 cd transport with C1

Then i add X1 and sound was better because more black,body,resolution and better scene and more space between instrunment.
As soon as arrived L1,i tried and bought and my system did a big improvment in every parameter,then bought P1 and M1 mono.

So i suggest to buy first L1,then X1 with 2 boards,one for C1 and one for L1 and in future one X1 without board because you can own 2,so can use one X1 for C1 and one X1 for L1

This for me,is absolutly the best program you can do.

T1 i never tried and no experience.

I have L1 and P1 with one X1 with 2 boards
Never bought a second X1 because wayting L10 that i hope to buy next year

My friend also had L1 and P1 with X1 with 2 boards,and bought a second X1 and the solution with 2 X1 is much better than one X1 with 2 boards

The trial we did in my system and in the system of my friend,living 4 miles from my home, with 2 X1,was dramatic
The system improved a lot.

So this is my experience

 

[Emerald]

I've spoken to Florian and he mentioned that L1 is superior up to -20db. Beyond that, both C1 and L1 sound close (doesn't mean C1 is better) to a point where I can prioritize on other things.

I have a limit in budget, I'll add it possibly sometime in future. The balance should go for a transport/streamer + cable loom + acoustic treatment.

 

[zbub]

I believe a system sounds better with a quality active preamp/linestage in the signal path. I don't know why and technically this doesn't make sense, but I am trusting my ears and my heart. I am using CH D1.1/C1.1 as my digital front end, and granted my preamp and power amp are not CH, but I much prefer the system with a preamp.

 

[CKKeung]

Nowadays many dac and streamers/servers got good volume control.
However I still find adding a preamp into the preamp gives significant sonic benefits.
CH Precision is not an exception. Adding a L1 or other brands of good preamp tp C1.1 is very rewarding sonically.

 

[JackD201]

Going from last question to first, I would...

A. Go for C1 with Ethernet card. Streaming via ethernet sounds better to me than streaming through my W20 via USB. You will require an android device and the CH App. being a gadget guy the App is a must anyway since it will allow you to adjust settings of all your CH gear from the best seat in the house. I know of no other brand that allows a user to do this.

B. I am waiting for the new transport and will consider adding the T1 when the transport becomes available. The question is, do you have a transport or streamer with external clocking capabilities at the moment? If not save the T1 for then.

C. At least in terms of the 1 series, my L1 became available last. The L1 certainly increased transparency, dynamics and soundstage size so my suggestion would be to go for the L1 first. A C1 can be added onto later to become a C1 Mono as you know. The X1 is highly recommended as well.

To sum it up my recommendation is C1 with all board options except Analog Input board, L1, dual output X1, M1.1 to start given budget considerations.

 

[iaxel]

B. I am waiting for the new transport and will consider adding the T1 when the transport becomes available. The question is, do you have a transport or streamer with external clocking capabilities at the moment? If not save the T1 for then.

Which new transport?

 

[JackD201]

D1 with different mechanism

 

[Emerald]

Thank you for the recommendation of L1. It is definitely my next purchase from CH.

I've placed order a week ago for C1, T1 (gps), X1 (1 out) and a M1.1. This is my first purchase of separates since my last amps were Naim and Devialet integrated back in 2018. I hope you understand the big jump i've made as a blind purchase.

This is why i feel no value or realization of a proper preamp L1 or others until i hear it. There is no proper dealer (with demos) in Dubai for Swiss or European electronics. I could have gone with Nagra/Goldmund as my friends suggested. However, reading through pages and pages here and in other high end debates and comparisons, it became clear that CH is a favored option to a wide margin of audiophiles.

I am still not finalized on speakers, the hunt continues