CD's/SACDs vs Server and Streamer

jespera

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2018
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I have been reading this forum, and have noticed a trend that straight off a CD player sounds better than downloaded into a hardrive or streaming.

The thing is bits are bits.

So what's the deal? Its it that the hard storage has to go through more networks to deliver the sound? hence whilst bit for bit perfect it may be, but there is more processing?

I get the purported issue with streaming - ie buffering/compression etc etc etc

I am a total luddite, and would not mind help on this. I say this as I am thinking about using a computer as a music storage/server

Ive asked myself that question a lot.

The best explanation ive come up with is that the scope trace of the digital signal of a cd player is very different to the output of a computer.

The old lampizator site has many examples of scope traces of cd player digital outputs. Audiocircle (empirical audio) has some of streamer/computer digital outputs.

The cd player digital outputs are generally very soft edged and smooth looking but quite far from really square. Computer outputs, on the other hand, look like squares but are overlayed with very high frequent noise.

Apparently, the source of this computer noise is both termic, switching and ringing inside the computer chips and its power supply — and its very hard to get rid of.

My bet is that this noise spills over to the dac and this somehow affects the dac’s ability to stack up the bits to something that approximates the original analogue signal.

This also correlates with the fact that software such as audirvana can actually improve the sq from servers quite a bit.
Such software reduces the general activity on the cpu — and thereby the noise.

Personally, i much prefer cd players to computers. A valved clocked and extensively modified marantz cd 94 is my best digital source.

I find that the digital source can be at least as important as the dac. In some ways, i find that the digital source to a large extent defines the “character” of the digital chain.

Jesper
 
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Loheswaran

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Dec 19, 2014
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Ive asked myself that question a lot.

The best explanation ive come up with is that the scope trace of the digital signal of a cd player is very different to the output of a computer.

The old lampizator site has many examples of scope traces of cd player digital outputs. Audiocircle (empirical audio) has some of streamer/computer digital outputs.

The cd player digital outputs are generally very soft edged and smooth looking but quite far from really square. Computer outputs, on the other hand, look like squares but are overlayed with very high frequent noise.

Apparently, the source of this computer noise is both termic, switching and ringing inside the computer chips and its power supply — and its very hard to get rid of.

My bet is that this noise spills over to the dac and this somehow affects the dac’s ability to stack up the bits to something that approximates the original analogue signal.

This also correlates with the fact that software such as audirvana can actually improve the sq from servers quite a bit.
Such software reduces the general activity on the cpu — and thereby the noise.

Personally, i much prefer cd players to computers. A valved clocked and extensively modified marantz cd 94 is my best digital source.

I find that the digital source can be at least as important as the dac. In some ways, i find that the digital source to a large extent defines the “character” of the digital chain.

Jesper

Dear Jesper

I really appreciate that answer - have you got a link to that site/page please?

I have a very modest CD player a Cayin cd55t - but I am absolutely bowled over by it. Audio Emotion who sold it to me dissuaded me from spending another £600 or so on the basis that I was looking for a musical CD player that I would simply listen to and enjoy - and that is what it is.

This is a golden age to buy second hand cd's - they are mega cheap - no expensive cleaning costs - what's not to love? I'm not a format facist - I just want to get the music I love.

Loheswaran
 
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jespera

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2018
494
539
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London
Dear Jesper

I really appreciate that answer - have you got a link to that site/page please?

I have a very modest CD player a Cayin cd55t - but I am absolutely bowled over by it. Audio Emotion who sold it to me dissuaded me from spending another £600 or so on the basis that I was looking for a musical CD player that I would simply listen to and enjoy - and that is what it is.

This is a golden age to buy second hand cd's - they are mega cheap - no expensive cleaning costs - what's not to love? I'm not a format facist - I just want to get the music I love.

Loheswaran

Heres a link to the lampizator excursions:

http://lampizator.eu/digilampizator/CD Transport Digi-Lampizator.html

And the computers:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154299.0

In the latter thread it is argued that its only the rise time of the digital signal and the variations in this (jitter) that matter. No doubt this also plays a role but ive tried digihats and power supplies and streamers no end: i cant get them to sound as good as a decent cd player used as digital source.

I dont know your cayin cd player but ive heard a modestly priced cayin amp that sounded mighty fine on a pair of zus.

Ive also heard multi 100k usd stacks of gear that sounded rubbish.

Its for sure not always whats-most-expensive thats whats-best.

Jesper

Ps! Yes you can buy box loads of cds for close to nothing these days.
 
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LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Ive asked myself that question a lot.

The best explanation ive come up with is that the scope trace of the digital signal of a cd player is very different to the output of a computer.

The old lampizator site has many examples of scope traces of cd player digital outputs. Audiocircle (empirical audio) has some of streamer/computer digital outputs.

The cd player digital outputs are generally very soft edged and smooth looking but quite far from really square. Computer outputs, on the other hand, look like squares but are overlayed with very high frequent noise.

Apparently, the source of this computer noise is both termic, switching and ringing inside the computer chips and its power supply — and its very hard to get rid of.

My bet is that this noise spills over to the dac and this somehow affects the dac’s ability to stack up the bits to something that approximates the original analogue signal.

This also correlates with the fact that software such as audirvana can actually improve the sq from servers quite a bit.
Such software reduces the general activity on the cpu — and thereby the noise.

Personally, i much prefer cd players to computers. A valved clocked and extensively modified marantz cd 94 is my best digital source.

I find that the digital source can be at least as important as the dac. In some ways, i find that the digital source to a large extent defines the “character” of the digital chain.

Jesper
Very interesting. I have read the Zanden Transport on other DACs did influence how they sounded. I stopped looking some time ago for servers after not finding any i liked...though there are many newer ones in the last few years which i imagine are excellent.

And yes, CDs are very inexpensive on Amazon 2nd hand...great stuff!!! A fraction of retail which is already the same or lower than CDs used to cost when they first came out decades ago!
 
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Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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Heres a link to the lampizator excursions:

http://lampizator.eu/digilampizator/CD Transport Digi-Lampizator.html

And the computers:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154299.0

In the latter thread it is argued that its only the rise time of the digital signal and the variations in this (jitter) that matter. No doubt this also plays a role but ive tried digihats and power supplies and streamers no end: i cant get them to sound as good as a decent cd player used as digital source.

I also have the experience from friends' systems that computer audio is hard to get to sound right. To me, since I don't want to get into the time-consuming DIY business (and I say no thank you to the drama involved), the only solution that I would consider would be an expensive server like a top Baetis, for example. Yet instead I decided to put that money elsewhere in the chain (most recently, a superb preamp), and optimize my CD playback that way. I am extremely happy with my decision, while others will have different priorities. To each their own path to happiness.

I leave the streaming part of my audio experience to exploring new music on YouTube or by similar low quality audio elsewhere. If I like the music, I buy the CD.
 

BlueFox

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Nov 8, 2013
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Just get a Lumin X1. :)
 
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