CH M1.1 - Stereophile Review

Jambo

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Apr 15, 2015
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There is an excellent review of CH M1.1 by Michael Fremer in the latest Stereophile - well worth reading. Sorry they have not posted the review online. Will need to get the Mag or the digital zinio edition or wait until CH post the review on their web site.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Michael sure likes the amplifier!
 

Elliot G.

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Lagonda

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Damned, he is a great writer, when he does his thing In Stereophile !
I haven’t even opened up my Zenio subscriptions since his “contributions”
here. Guess it’s time:rolleyes:
 

Leif S

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I really liked the CH Precision gear!
 
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Elliot G.

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I never have seen anyone discuss this and none of the reviewers ever mentioned it however a few of my friends/clients I have found this to be very significant.
The M1.1 has display settings and one of these is for temperature. I find many people turn all their gear off and only turn it on when they use. I guess this makes sense but I fear they will never experience the optimized sound of the gear. Tube gear aside, in some ways, but not in all.
Let me get to the point. The M1.1 becomes a world beater at over 50 degrees C. If you turn your M1.1 amp off each time I doubt you will sit in front of it long enough to get it warm.
I am not a scientific guy and to be honest I don't care but what I hear is quite special. I
I don't shut my gear off ever. Never have never will. I have found every SS amp I have owned sounds better this way. The CH however sounds great but then it reaches a point at which it goes into the beyond. Its not subtle and you go from listening to music to getting lost in it. I used to listen with Harry Pearson back in the day and we would talk about this as the night went along that there always seemed to be a time where the GMIA ( great moment in audio) happened but again I am off track.
If you own a CH M1.1 I suggest that you check the temp when you start listening and beat that bad boy up a little to get it to the 50+ mark and see what you discover.
I don't know the 10 series yet since I haven't gotten mine and my orders start arriving late next month I would guess that maybe they are the same but I don't know,,,,YET
 

marty

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Elliot
I'm not sure your experience is unique to CH amps (as you discovered with HP). I had a friend over a few weeks ago and he was astonished to observe what I told him when he sat down which is that the system will not sound remotely similar to how it sounds initally. The 0-20min phase gets you to first base. At 45 min. you are rounding second but at 90 minutes, it's a different ball game. You would swear the gear was different. In a sense it is. Thermal stability at operating temp is the likely cause as you pointed out. But this happened with the humble (heh-heh) JC1+ Parasound. The issue that confuses me a bit is that I'm not sure running gear 24/7 is a sure de facto remedy. I think you have to be running at significant output for the thermal operating temps to stabilize that take the amps to the next level. That said, I leave my amps on 24/7 as well, even if there's nothing playing simply because everyone seems to agree that failure, if it does occur, generally happens at turn-on.
Marty
 

MadFloyd

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CH told me that it would shorten the lifespan to keep the components on all the time. Heat kills electronic circuitry.

That said, I've been guilty of leaving mine on for the past month. Not looking forward to my electric bill.

Elliot, my amps have NEVER reached 50 degrees. They are always at 49.
 

gian60

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M1 is incredible when reach 51 degree,when in the evening some friends came to listen,at 7 in the morning i on all to reach 50 degree in the evening,sound became magic at 50 degree
 
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MadFloyd

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M1 is incredible when reach 51 degree,when in the evening some friends came to listen,at 7 in the morning i on all to reach 50 degree in the evening,sound became magic at 50 degree
FOMO :(
 

Al M.

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M1 is incredible when reach 51 degree,when in the evening some friends came to listen,at 7 in the morning i on all to reach 50 degree in the evening,sound became magic at 50 degree

C'mon, should I really believe that? Maybe a little electric heating blanket on top might help? :D :D

Definitely less electricity consumption than leaving on the amps all the time! ;) :D
 

Al M.

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CH told me that it would shorten the lifespan to keep the components on all the time. Heat kills electronic circuitry.

Yes, that can be a problem, especially with power amps. I would never leave a power amp on all the time, for that reason. Tube amps most certainly (!), but SS amps neither as well.
 

Elliot G.

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Yes, that can be a problem, especially with power amps. I would never leave a power amp on all the time, for that reason. Tube amps most certainly (!), but SS amps neither as well.
As far as I know the thing that hurts amplifiers is turning them on and off. I have never had any issues with any SS amps I have owned leaving them on all the time. I also will tell you that over 50 degrees is the "magic" spot for the sound. My amp is normally when I start listening at around 47-48 and after I play it for a while I can get it to 50 plus and then it really goes to another level.
I can understand shutting them off if you don't use them frequently , or in a bad storm , or on vacation but I listen to mine almost every day so I won't
 
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Elliot G.

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Oh by the way you wont see any significant increase in your elect bill, that's not true
 

dan31

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I struggle with the leaving it on all the time as well.

If you leave a class A preamp on 24/7, how long should the unit last before parts start to exhaust themselves? 10 years? 20 years? Longer? These are terribly expensive products and service is not cheap.
 

Elliot G.

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Elliot
I'm not sure your experience is unique to CH amps (as you discovered with HP). I had a friend over a few weeks ago and he was astonished to observe what I told him when he sat down which is that the system will not sound remotely similar to how it sounds initally. The 0-20min phase gets you to first base. At 45 min. you are rounding second but at 90 minutes, it's a different ball game. You would swear the gear was different. In a sense it is. Thermal stability at operating temp is the likely cause as you pointed out. But this happened with the humble (heh-heh) JC1+ Parasound. The issue that confuses me a bit is that I'm not sure running gear 24/7 is a sure de facto remedy. I think you have to be running at significant output for the thermal operating temps to stabilize that take the amps to the next level. That said, I leave my amps on 24/7 as well, even if there's nothing playing simply because everyone seems to agree that failure, if it does occur, generally happens at turn-on.
Marty
Its not unique to Ch , I said I never turn my SS amps off. I never turned my Levenson's or Krells etc. etc. I wholly recommend the same with the Jc1+. In the CH case the difference of about 3-5 degrees truly makes a difference in the sound going from great to the Holly Shit level.
I believe that you can get there without leaving them on all the time however there is a period for the cold amp to initially stabilize and then there is the issues of getting to the optimate temperature.

In the case of tube amps, back with HPO and on my own journeys. BTW I owned many tube systems up until the time when the CH gear ended that cycle of joy and failure a few years ago. When I was playing the ARC ( and others) I never left them on since that wouldn't work and it does heat the room, shortens tube life and IMO is dangerous they still needed a t least 30 minutes to stabilize and then another period of time to get to optimate sound.
Marty we agree here and I believe we have had this discussion. The Parasounds are another perfect example of this as what they sound like on turn on is nothing like they can sound after 60-90 minutes of playing them

Just wait my friend LOL
 

Al M.

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As far as I know the thing that hurts amplifiers is turning them on and off. I have never had any issues with any SS amps I have owned leaving them on all the time. I also will tell you that over 50 degrees is the "magic" spot for the sound. My amp is normally when I start listening at around 47-48 and after I play it for a while I can get it to 50 plus and then it really goes to another level.
I can understand shutting them off if you don't use them frequently , or in a bad storm , or on vacation but I listen to mine almost every day so I won't

Ok, Eliot, let's take a step back, take a deep breath, and look at it critically.

CH Precision themselves say (they told Ian such) that leaving on the amp all the time is bad because, and with this they just repeat what is common knowledge, heat kills electronic circuitry. So do you really think that CH Precision would make such an engineering mistake that you would have to leave their amps on all the time to reach optimal sound, contra their own recommendations?

Really?

REALLY?

You and Gian are propagating the myth that the amps need to reach a certain magical temperature, and thus are best left on all the time.

And if an amplifier is hurt by turning it on and off, maybe that has been true in the past, and maybe that's true of an inferior current design.. But do you really think that CH Precision amps are designed so badly that they can't being turned on and off, especially when it's not several times a day, but once or twice a day? My Octave tube preamp and tube amp have a soft start feature, with SS electronic circuitry ramping up things slowly (SS circuitry also automatically shuts the power amp off upon tube failure, or upon other irregularities). I can impossibly imagine that the circuitry of CH Precision amps is any less sophisticated. CH Precision is the embodiment of sophistication itself.

Sure, I can believe that it takes a good while for an SS amp to sound best, but having to leave it on all the time seems ludicrous to me.


What would CH Precision themselves say to all this?
 

PeterA

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I struggle with the leaving it on all the time as well.

If you leave a class A preamp on 24/7, how long should the unit last before parts start to exhaust themselves? 10 years? 20 years? Longer? These are terribly expensive products and service is not cheap.

My old Pass preamp and phono were class A and they did not even have a power switch. They ran pretty warm and Pass recommended keeping them on all the time. They last for years without issue. Different gear may be different, so I would simply follow the recommendation of the manufacturer and dealer. My dealer told me to keep my Lamm tube gear on all the time.

I'm told there is an old thread on this very topic here on WBF, but I can't seem to find it.
 

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