Cognitive dissonance

bonzo75

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While reading an article in the Atlantic, which I will not link to as it also covers current affairs which is not allowed, the initial part of the article covered the below points on cognitive dissonance that I thought were very relevant to the audio decision making process, hence just posting the extract. Please no references to politics of covid, only to audiophilia if any discussion. Extracted below from July 12 article by Elliott Aronson and Carol Tavris

"Cognitive dissonance, coined by Leon Festinger in the 1950s, describes the discomfort people feel when two cognitions, or a cognition and a behavior, contradict each other. I smoke is dissonant with the knowledge that Smoking can kill me. To reduce that dissonance, the smoker must either quit—or justify smoking (“It keeps me thin, and being overweight is a health risk too, you know”). At its core, Festinger’s theory is about how people strive to make sense out of contradictory ideas and lead lives that are, at least in their own minds, consistent and meaningful.

One of us (Aronson), who was a protégé of Festinger in the mid-’50s, advanced cognitive-dissonance theory by demonstrating the powerful, yet nonobvious, role it plays when the concept of self is involved. Dissonance is most painful when evidence strikes at the heart of how we see ourselves—when it threatens our belief that we are kind, ethical, competent, or smart. The minute we make any decision—I’ll buy this car; I will vote for this candidate; I think COVID-19 is serious; no, I’m sure it is a hoax—we will begin to justify the wisdom of our choice and find reasons to dismiss the alternative. Before long, any ambivalence we might have felt at the time of the original decision will have morphed into certainty. As people justify each step taken after the original decision, they will find it harder to admit they were wrong at the outset. Especially when the end result proves self-defeating, wrongheaded, or harmful.

The theory inspired more than 3,000 experiments that have transformed psychologists’ understanding of how the human mind works. One of Aronson’s most famous experiments showed that people who had to go through an unpleasant, embarrassing process in order to be admitted to a discussion group (designed to consist of boring, pompous participants) later reported liking that group far better than those who were allowed to join after putting in little or no effort. Going through hell and high water to attain something that turns out to be boring, vexatious, or a waste of time creates dissonance: I’m smart, so how did I end up in this stupid group?To reduce that dissonance, participants unconsciously focused on whatever might be good or interesting about the group and blinded themselves to its prominent negatives. The people who did not work hard to get into the group could more easily see the truth—how boring it was. Because they had very little investment in joining, they had very little dissonance to reduce."
 
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spiritofmusic

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Cognitive dissonance? AKA dealing with the world in 2020.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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it is much easier to avoid cognitive dissonance by never committing to anything. then you never have to rationalize.

forget about joining groups or choosing hifi systems, how about whether or not to get married, or to stay on your job.....or have children? those are the biggies. obviously each one can either drive you crazy or you decide to fully commit.

where is the line between being an adult and committing, and being in denial about reality? or do we just apply this perspective to less life altering type choices?

it seems we continually judge our personal condition and level of commitment on everything........and either keep on or not. how can we be any different than that?

married for 46 years, working in the same place for 40 years, living in the same city all my life, same speaker brand and electronics for 15 years.......i guess i'm good at denial. but i do tend to be all-in with things. never in fear of commitment.

certainly our paths inside our hobbies can be less seriously dissected and judged. so i get how this concept might applied depending upon our perspectives. but all our hifi decisions are very complicated so that only the decider really knows what goes into it so hard to judge another about it. i think we hardly know ourselves entirely objectively why we choose some gear or make a system decision.
 
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bonzo75

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I think the point is not about committing, but to be aware of where you are rationalizing and where you are being realistic. You don't have to rationalize something you have committed to.

The study that people thought a group was smarter or not based on the selection process they have been through is interesting. So if someone offers exclusivity, people think it is a better product as compared to the one easier to get
 
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DaveC

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Sure, your investment in something alters your perception of it. The obvious ones in a luxury market are price and exclusivity. While folks may say they understand that price doesn't correlate to quality all of the time, it seems impossible not to be impressed with a high MSRP and compelled by the possibility of a discount. This also gets ingrained in culture. I'll fully admit, even though my own business relies on flat pricing and no discounts, I often get caught up emotionally in pricing, and am not sure it's even possible to fully divorce one's self from it. To complicate matters, often it really IS the case that a discount means a good deal, differentiating from when this is the case vs an item with an inflated msrp that isn't a good value is emotionally difficult, and we experience these emotions regardless if they are welcome or not, and it is a rare individual that isn't swayed by emotion at all. Exclusivity seems to work in a similar manner.

With beliefs, I think often folks identify or conflate their beliefs with who they are as a person, so this makes it difficult to have any empathy for different beliefs. But it's a trap, you are NOT your beliefs! You do NOT have to hold strong opinions or even have opinions on everything, and if you change your beliefs based on new evidence or thinking, it does not mean you are personally deficient. It means you are open to learning and evolving, which can lead to improvements in one's life. I think we need to be much more cautious and discerning about what beliefs we adapt, and be ready to change them depending on new information and experience. I think it's fine to abstain from forming opinions on many things, and it's ok to say "I don't know". Nobody can be an expert on everything, yet we tend to form strong opinions on everything regardless, often based on the tiniest bits of knowledge, flawed logic, or simply from adapting others' opinions as our own without any thought or analysis.
 

bonzo75

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Sure, your investment in something alters your perception of it. The obvious ones in a luxury market are price and exclusivity. While folks may say they understand that price doesn't correlate to quality all of the time, it seems impossible not to be impressed with a high MSRP and compelled by the possibility of a discount. This also gets ingrained in culture. I'll fully admit, even though my own business relies on flat pricing and no discounts, I often get caught up emotionally in pricing, and am not sure it's even possible to fully divorce one's self from it. To complicate matters, often it really IS the case that a discount means a good deal, differentiating from when this is the case vs an item with an inflated msrp that isn't a good value is emotionally difficult, and we experience these emotions regardless if they are welcome or not, and it is a rare individual that isn't swayed by emotion at all. Exclusivity seems to work in a similar manner.

With beliefs, I think often folks identify or conflate their beliefs with who they are as a person, so this makes it difficult to have any empathy for different beliefs. But it's a trap, you are NOT your beliefs! You do NOT have to hold strong opinions or even have opinions on everything, and if you change your beliefs based on new evidence or thinking, it does not mean you are personally deficient. It means you are open to learning and evolving, which can lead to improvements in one's life. I think we need to be much more cautious and discerning about what beliefs we adapt, and be ready to change them depending on new information and experience. I think it's fine to abstain from forming opinions on many things, and it's ok to say "I don't know". Nobody can be an expert on everything, yet we tend to form strong opinions on everything regardless, often based on the tiniest bits of knowledge, flawed logic, or simply from adapting others' opinions as our own without any thought or analysis.

Precisely, very well written
 

morricab

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I think the point is not about committing, but to be aware of where you are rationalizing and where you are being realistic. You don't have to rationalize something you have committed to.

The study that people thought a group was smarter or not based on the selection process they have been through is interesting. So if someone offers exclusivity, people think it is a better product as compared to the one easier to get
Thus the audio price wars?? Set the bar for ownership high as possible and those with the means will gravitate towards it for "exclusivity"...even if it sounds like crap.
 

bonzo75

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Thus the audio price wars?? Set the bar for ownership high as possible and those with the means will gravitate towards it for "exclusivity"...even if it sounds like crap.

The selection process para addresses exactly that - if you have struggled through a few years to get your upgrade by saving up, moving stuff around, getting deals, the end result will feel exclusive. If it comes easily, like a low priced efficient speaker with low priced SET that sounds great without much set up struggle, it will feel boring.
 
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the sound of Tao

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Just one other take. Dissonance may just come out of the seeming conflicts of thinking versus feeling.

I had the good fortune to work for a very wise woman in the business faculty at my campus (when I was delivering sustainability training out to industry) who told me to first uncover and know my compass and that then everything from there on in would just make sense. I believe she was 100% right. Getting a sense of meaning in life makes every decision then much more straight forward, more connected and less conflicted.

Many people don’t ask about the meaning their life holds. They might have vague aims or goals but that is not the same as understanding meaning or purpose.

Many people seem to have things mostly arse about. They see themselves in terms of their comprehension rather than an unfolding of their instinct that informs their comprehension. They relate to themselves in terms of their perceptions rather than an unfolding consequence of their feelings. They see themselves as separate yet they are in truth indistinct from their environment. All the boundaries that we set are illusions.

In finding answers we set up barriers to knowing. We see knowledge as light yet all knowing comes out of the dark. It is the darkness that rushes up to flare into light.

Light isn’t opposite to dark, it is the child of the dark. The light requires context, it is a brilliant spark that creates a series of momentary awarenesses and reveals our human kindness and compassion but it is a flickering point bound in both time and space. The dark is a void, it is a boundless infinite and outside of time. All those things we seek to define we see as separate. That separation is only apparent in the light. Light creates all division. Being conscious is a fragmentation of the infinite whole into its finite parts. And yet a sleepy soul sees no difference. For those that feel and act and then observe there is no dissonance. There is only one whole continually unfolding consonant harmony. I buy therefore I am.
 
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LenWhite

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Many also seek to reinforce their own thoughts and biases by only listening to those that have the same opinions, rather than trying to seek the truth from corroborated sources.
 

Al M.

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So if someone offers exclusivity, people think it is a better product as compared to the one easier to get

Except when you are able to compare, repeatedly, within the same system. I have given up being surprised by anything, even though in general more expensive products do tend to be better overall -- a good number of exceptions to the trend very much allowed.
 

Al M.

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Many also seek to reinforce their own thoughts and biases by only listening to those that have the same opinions, rather than trying to seek the truth from corroborated sources.

True. Yet a good antidote is going out there -- if you are able to -- and listen to other well assembled systems that have been put together based on different preferences and opinions about what is best. Keeps you grounded and well aware of the shortcomings of your own system and its topology, even though you may very much be biased towards it, given that you chose it. And at the same time it lets you appreciate its strengths even more.
 

Kingrex

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I think it means my stereo sounds like crap but I'm convinced its great. And that's ok for me.
 

bonzo75

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I assume your post is largely a quote from that article. Whether it is a quote or your synopsis, you should identify the author along with the date and source of original publication.

Edited
 

sbnx

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Good article Ked. Audiophiles form a strong set of beliefs/opinions about what makes good sound and what will never be good. They then justify this by only listening to those products. These are the longstanding debates we always see -- tubes vs. SS, Analog vs. Digital, or even something like all metal dome tweeters ring. If I am a tube lover and sit down to listen to a system with a solid state amp I am already expecting it to sound a certain way. If it sounds melodic, smooth and "bloomy" then I will certainly have an instance of cognitive dissonance. I might have to justify the sound by saying something like -- "Wow, those cables sure are smoothing things out."
 

bonzo75

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Good article Ked. Audiophiles form a strong set of beliefs/opinions about what makes good sound and what will never be good. They then justify this by only listening to those products. These are the longstanding debates we always see -- tubes vs. SS, Analog vs. Digital, or even something like all metal dome tweeters ring. If I am a tube lover and sit down to listen to a system with a solid state amp I am already expecting it to sound a certain way. If it sounds melodic, smooth and "bloomy" then I will certainly have an instance of cognitive dissonance. I might have to justify the sound by saying something like -- "Wow, those cables sure are smoothing things out."

Slightly different - if you hear 8 tube systems you like, and 8 SS you don't, you might form a bias against SS, in terms of not trying SS out. That does not mean you cannot hear it sound good when it does. Same with analog vs digital. That leads to many online debates which are extrapolations of previous experiences, but that does not mean you are not open minded...if you have had 8 failures, you just don't have the infinite time to try the 9th of the same type.

The article refers to a more dangerous bias. This is where you buy a component, that probably would have sounded awful to you had you not owned it...yet, because you have gone through a long winded process to buy it, you now convince yourself this is the ideal sound.

Liking smooth and bloomy or some artefact is all part of the growing up process. We all liked some artefacts as noobs and once we mature more we should keep developing.
 

sbnx

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The article refers to a more dangerous bias. This is where you buy a component, that probably would have sounded awful to you had you not owned it...yet, because you have gone through a long winded process to buy it, you now convince yourself this is the ideal sound.

Yes, that is certainly a well known bias. Someone buys an expensive piece of gear and then starts posting all over the place with how great it is. It may be great. But readers have to be cautious as it is very difficult for someone to say "Hey look at me. I just spent $30k on this piece of crap amplifier. I am totally stupid. Anyone want to buy it from me?"
 

Audiophile Bill

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Slightly different - if you hear 8 tube systems you like, and 8 SS you don't, you might form a bias against SS, in terms of not trying SS out. That does not mean you cannot hear it sound good when it does. Same with analog vs digital. That leads to many online debates which are extrapolations of previous experiences, but that does not mean you are not open minded...if you have had 8 failures, you just don't have the infinite time to try the 9th of the same type.

The article refers to a more dangerous bias. This is where you buy a component, that probably would have sounded awful to you had you not owned it...yet, because you have gone through a long winded process to buy it, you now convince yourself this is the ideal sound.

Liking smooth and bloomy or some artefact is all part of the growing up process. We all liked some artefacts as noobs and once we mature more we should keep developing.

You are referring to Popperian falsification in the top part of your post o_O
 

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