Cut off for Transparent Audio Hi-Z and Low-Z speaker cables ?

Elberoth

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Dec 15, 2012
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Does anybody know what is the cut off for Transparent Audio Hi-Z and Low-Z speaker cables ?

A friend of mine has the Reference G5 speaker cables that have been custom calibrated by Transparent Audio as Hi-Z for his McIntosh Mc 1.25kW monoblocks.

He wants to repurpose them on his McIntosh MA9000 intergrated, to which Transparent said that the cable has to be recalibrated to Low-Z setting.

It doesn't make any sense, as all those amps are based on similar basic design, with scaled output power.

The measurements available online of various McIntosh transistor amps show very close (and low) output impedance.

McIntosh Mc 462
0.09-0.13 Ohm @ 8 Ohm, double that on 4 Ohm tap
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mcintosh-laboratory-mc462-power-amplifier-measurements

McIntosh MA7200
0.16-0.19 Ohm @ 8 Ohm, 0.12 Ohm on 4 Ohm tap
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mcintosh-mac7200-stereo-receiver-measurements

McIntosh Mc 501
0.08-0.16 Ohm @ 8 Ohm, 0.13-0.16 Ohm on 2 Ohm tap (highest)
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mcintosh-mc501-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements-0

McIntosh MA 252
0.04-0.06 Ohm @ 8 Ohm
https://www.hifinews.com/content/mcintosh-ma252-integrated-amplifier-lab-report

McIntosh MA 9000
0.15-0.19 Ohm @ 8 Ohm
https://www.hifinews.com/content/mcintosh-ma9000-integrated-ampdac-lab-report

As you can see, the impedance is both LOW and very uniform across all McIntosh amps.

This has been confirmed by McIntosh labs:

Hi Adam,

While the 1200 watt MC1.25KW is much more powerful than the 300 watt MA9000 their output impedance is very similar.

I have no personal experience with the Transparent cables. You will have to be the judge on what works best in your system.

Thank you,
Ron Cornelius
McIntosh


I have forwarded this to McIntosh, but they stick to their guns:

I can say that our standards for output impedance are very strict. Two components may have output impedances that are “very similar”, but depending what those two values are they can still fall into two different categories by our standards.

Please let me know if I can provide further assistance.

Best Regards,

Ian Steinbach | Sales and Product Specialist


Whan asked, they do not want to disclose neither the source for (claimed) McIntosh Mc 1.25kW high output impedance, its value nor the cut off requency for Low-Z and Hi-Z.

Am I the only one who thinks sth is not right here ?

At present I'm betting on the fact that McIntosh has wrong data in their database and the cable has been terminated wrong all along.
 

Karen Sumner

Industry Expert
Apr 18, 2021
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Hi, Elberoth -

In some instances, Transparent must rely on the manufacturer specifications, but in most instances we measure the output impedance using our measurement criteria. If you consulted with Transparent directly about the precise model number, etc. of your component, The information is probably correct. The reason we prefer a direct measurement using our criteria is because different manufacturers use different criteria. Because our criteria is directly tied to our design model, you should get our intended result in your system.
 

DasguteOhr

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Sep 26, 2013
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in the boxes of the loudspeaker cable ust bandwidth correction and components that ensure phase linearity. higher-impedance amplifiers need different values than low-impedance amplifiers. The output resistance and inductance of the cable have a major influence on the transmitted frequency response
zobel2.png
HMS was the first to have this adaptation for their cables, other manufacturers have copied it.;)
IMG_2819.jpg
 

Karen Sumner

Industry Expert
Apr 18, 2021
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443
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Stephan -

Interesting! From what I understand from my reading this morning, HMS was distributed only briefly in the USA near the turn of the 20th century — which is about the time Transparent started on this path. We honestly have never heard of HMS until today. Just goes to show, that there are very few truly original ideas. I think the scientific community is full of stories about parallel paths of inquiry miraculously occurring at about the same time. I applaud them for making their contribution to dispelling the "black magic" element of one of the least understood audio categories — cables. I hope we are sufficiently mutually flattered.
 

DasguteOhr

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2013
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Hello Karen thank you,
as I said, i only speak for europe in 1996 they had the first HMS cable with zobelglied adaptation. i heard it from a friend and i loved the sound. Today, Hms builds this adaptation for amplifiers for every cable for retrofitting. Called "perfect match "simply parallel to your speaker terminals and test it 3 possible settings as it sounds best.
For single and biwiring
180501.HMS4_-640x300.jpg images.jpeg

Or Hms top speakercable suprema(open box) HMS-Suprema-Lautsprecherkabel-1.jpg
 

Karen Sumner

Industry Expert
Apr 18, 2021
138
443
135
Thank you for sharing this information, Stephan. This is a significant departure from what Transparent does. Everything matters, including the cable's electrical characteristics and length with our technology, and we do not provide the user with selectable outputs. All Transparent products are designed and manufactured to our listening criteria which has been established after a lifetime of our listening panel playing and listening to live acoustic music.
 
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Anthony Ho

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2019
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Thank you for sharing this information, Stephan. This is a significant departure from what Transparent does. Everything matters, including the cable's electrical characteristics and length with our technology, and we do not provide the user with selectable outputs. All Transparent products are designed and manufactured to our listening criteria which has been established after a lifetime of our listening panel playing and listening to live acoustic music.

Hi Karen,

I would like to ask whether a better sound could be achieved by utilizing a longer lengths of speaker cable, there was some discussion out there saying 3 meters is better than 2.5 meters, in some extreme case 4 meters sounding the best. Any insight to share? Tks.
 

Karen Sumner

Industry Expert
Apr 18, 2021
138
443
135
Dear Anthony –

All cables have built in filter characteristics, and these filter characteristics change with cable length. A longer length of a given type of non-networked cable does not sound the same as a shorter length of cable that has the same construction. Two cables of the same length, but different construction, also have different filter properties, and therefore sound different. Because the cable also becomes a part of the signal transfer function of the components it connects as discussed earlier in this thread, it also follows that a given length of a given cable might sound pretty good when hooked up to a given component, but it very well may not exhibit the same musically pleasing behavior when hooked up to a different component.

In cables without a compensating network, there is a theoretically optimum cable length for a given cable construction and given associated components that will sound the best. As many audiophiles know from endless experimentation, it is nearly impossible to set a system up with the cable lengths one physically needs while being lucky enough to find the right combination of cabling construction to get long term musically satisfying results.

Please visit our website transparentcable.com to learn more about how Transparent has addressed this audiophile dilemma.
 
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Anthony Ho

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2019
21
10
83
46
Dear Anthony –

All cables have built in filter characteristics, and these filter characteristics change with cable length. A longer length of a given type of non-networked cable does not sound the same as a shorter length of cable that has the same construction. Two cables of the same length, but different construction, also have different filter properties, and therefore sound different. Because the cable also becomes a part of the signal transfer function of the components it connects as discussed earlier in this thread, it also follows that a given length of a given cable might sound pretty good when hooked up to a given component, but it very well may not exhibit the same musically pleasing behavior when hooked up to a different component.

In cables without a compensating network, there is a theoretically optimum cable length for a given cable construction and given associated components that will sound the best. As many audiophiles know from endless experimentation, it is nearly impossible to set a system up with the cable lengths one physically needs while being lucky enough to find the right combination of cabling construction to get long term musically satisfying results.

Please visit our website transparentcable.com to learn more about how Transparent has addressed this audiophile dilemma.

Thanks Karen for the detail explanation. A cable with a network box i.e. Transparent Cable, there is no optimum cable length, simple saying, a pair of 10 feet speaker cable perform identical to the 8 feet version.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Karen Sumner

Industry Expert
Apr 18, 2021
138
443
135
Thanks Karen for the detail explanation. A cable with a network box i.e. Transparent Cable, there is no optimum cable length, simple saying, a pair of 10 feet speaker cable perform identical to the 8 feet version.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Hi, Anthony -

With Transparent, all lengths are optimum. One can even have a system layout with the amplifier(s) set up on the left sidewall or on the right sidewall. To make a neat installation in these situations, it is better to have one shorter cable to the nearest speaker and a longer cable to the far speaker to avoid having a coil of cable sitting on the floor. It is important to order different cable lengths as a pair so that we can make sure that all the connections, etc. layout properly. With mismatched pairs, we also spend a bit more time in constructing these to make sure that the 2 channels have tightly matched electrical properties.
 

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