Dac Suggestions for Dartzeel Pre/Power Combo

manjy

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2011
53
18
913
Hi,
I use the Dartzeel Pre/Power with the Evolution MM2 Speakers.
My current DAC is the Playback Designs MPD-5 with the USB-XIII box.
I listen only to Computer Audio using Roon.

I'm looking to upgrade my DAC to something like the EMM DA2 or the Esoteric N-01.

Is anyone using either of these with the Dartzeels and can offer some suggestions?
An in home demo of either is not possible at my location.

Thanks.
 

Bodhi

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2014
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361
155
Manjy, what is it about your current PBD dac that you feel is lacking in your system? What qualities are you hoping to gain from an upgrade? Also, what is the upper limit of your budget? And are you locked into those two options (Emm & Estoteric), or open to other suggestions?
 

manjy

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2011
53
18
913
Manjy, what is it about your current PBD dac that you feel is lacking in your system? What qualities are you hoping to gain from an upgrade? Also, what is the upper limit of your budget? And are you locked into those two options (Emm & Estoteric), or open to other suggestions?

Hi,

Although my setup is sounding good, I feel that the new generation DAC's can offer a warmer and more engaging sound.
It does everything right but on many tracks, I miss the intimacy - I don't know how to explain it in words.

EMM and Esoteric are the 2 options I've looking at but definitely open to suggestions.
 

Bodhi

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2014
1,051
361
155
Hi,

Although my setup is sounding good, I feel that the new generation DAC's can offer a warmer and more engaging sound.
It does everything right but on many tracks, I miss the intimacy - I don't know how to explain it in words.

EMM and Esoteric are the 2 options I've looking at but definitely open to suggestions.
The best sounding dac i've heard in a long while is the APL Hifi DSD-MR dac. It is a tube-based design & uses a proprietory dac architecture. It is very resolving, though utterly natural, dimensional and musical. I love it, though it's not exactly cheap @$45kUS. But it plays in the same league as the MSB Select dac. Here is some more info fyi. If that's over your budget, they also have a solid state version (DSD-SR) which is cheaper & uses OEM dac chips, but retains their natural/dimensional house sound. Price is €15.000 EUR (approx $16.5kUSD).
 
Last edited:

Golum

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2018
1,805
2,552
405
Lausanne, CH
I would have a suggestion in terms of DAC, as I’ve personally heard this combo with Herve in his demo room near Geneva last year when wisnon brought Lampi Pacific to Herve to hear it himself. Result was really phenomenal (not only my opinion) so from my side this would be something to think about...few pictures attached...
4BD143E9-B345-45DA-A835-12C82776501C.jpeg D7E1FF37-3508-445E-A53F-2CD4456F70C0.jpeg
 

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manjy

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2011
53
18
913
The best sounding dac i've heard in a long while is the APL Hifi DSD-MR dac. It is a tube-based design & uses a proprietory dac architecture. It is very resolving, though utterly natural, dimensional and musical. I love it, though it's not exactly cheap @$45kUS. But it plays in the same league as the MSB Select dac. Here is some more info fyi. If that's over your budget, they also have a solid state version (DSD-SR) which is cheaper & uses OEM dac chips, but retains their natural/dimensional house sound. Price is €15.000 EUR (approx $16.5kUSD).

Thanks.. I will have a look.
Would ideally like the DAC to have an Ethernet in rather than use an external box.
 
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manjy

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2011
53
18
913
I would have a suggestion in terms of DAC, as I’ve personally heard this combo with Herve in his demo room near Geneva last year when wisnon brought Lampi Pacific to Herve to hear it himself. Result was really phenomenal (not only my opinion) so from my side this would be something to think about...few pictures attached...
View attachment 57073 View attachment 57074

Thanks for the suggestion and also the great photos.. will look at it.
 
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Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
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i've had a number of dacs in my room over the last 3-4 years, mated with my dart pre and 458 dart amps, with MM7's. and my previous dac to that was a Playback Designs MPS-5.

started with the Trinity dac, then added the Lampi GG v1. the Trinity dac was outstanding, but only PCM. very expensive but sounded excellent with the darts. the Lampi brought a lush musical viewpoint, but still lively. really enjoyed it and was rolling a few tubes. sold the Trinity, then upgraded the GG to v 1.5. this was better than the v1. more transparent and worked with more types of tubes.

next i switched to the Aqua Formula dac v1, and this mated better with my system as it was more transparent and neutral sounding. not quite to the Trinity dac level, but at 1/3rd the price. also tried the Nagra HD dac which was good but had a bit of a tube sort of presentation with that rounded sound.

over this time period i had heard the MSB Select II 3-4 times at shows and had tried my best to find that sort of complete analog sound with another lower priced dac. finally after those other dacs, i decided to pull the trigger on the MSB. love it. perfectly mates with the darts and my system. had this now for over two years.

added note; this last spring i added the SGM Extreme server. it's possible that this server makes as big a difference as the dac. kinda blew my mind. the Extreme with a modest dac might be the hot ticket as far as price/value champ.

good luck.
 
Last edited:

manjy

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2011
53
18
913
i've had a number of dacs in my room over the last 3-4 years, mated with my dart pre and 458 dart amps, with MM7's. and my previous dac to that was a Playback Designs MPS-5.

started with the Trinity dac, then added the Lampi GG v1. the Trinity dac was outstanding, but only PCM. very expensive but sounded excellent with the darts. the Lampi brought a lush musical viewpoint, but still lively. really enjoyed it and was rolling a few tubes. sold the Trinity, then upgraded the GG to v 1.5. this was better than the v1. more transparent and worked with more types of tubes.

next i switched to the Aqua Formula dac v1, and this mated better with my system as it was more transparent and neutral sounding. not quite to the Trinity dac level, but at 1/3rd the price. also tried the Nagra HD dac which was good but had a bit of a tube sort of presentation with that rounded sound.

over this time period i had heard the MSB Select II 3-4 times at shows and had tried my best to find that sort of complete analog sound with another lower priced dac. finally after those other dacs, i decided to pull the trigger on the MSB. love it. perfectly mates with the darts and my system. had this now for over two years.

added note; this last spring i added the SGM Extreme server. it's possible that this server makes as big a difference as the dac. kinda blew my mind. the Extreme with a modest dac might be the hot ticket as far as price/value champ.

good luck.

Thank you for your suggestions.

The MSB Select costs much more than I'd like to currently spend on a DAC.

I will have a look at the SGM Extreme server.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,368
4,410
Thank you for your suggestions.

The MSB Select costs much more than I'd like to currently spend on a DAC.

I will have a look at the SGM Extreme server.

any of those other more moderately priced dacs i mentioned would be fine choices. and really liked the new Lampi Pacific dac the two times i heard it.....but it was at shows, not in my system with the darts.
 

christoph

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2015
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Thanks.. I will have a look.
Would ideally like the DAC to have an Ethernet in rather than use an external box.
The Pacific DAC does have an Ethernet-in Interface :cool:
 

LampiNA

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2015
347
858
335
any of those other more moderately priced dacs i mentioned would be fine choices. and really liked the new Lampi Pacific dac the two times i heard it.....but it was at shows, not in my system with the darts.

Thanks for the kind words, Mike. I'm glad you enjoyed the face time with the Pacific. I'd be happy to send a new Pacific out to you to give a proper listen in your own environment.

As good as it presented at the show, as you know, there's no place to evaluate like home. :cool:
 
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Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
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Thanks for the kind words, Mike. I'm glad you enjoyed the face time with the Pacific. I'd be happy to send a new Pacific out to you to give a proper listen in your own environment.

As good as it presented at the show, as you know, there's no place to evaluate like home. :cool:

thanks Fred, for the generous offer.

honestly i'm not in any way in the market for a dac. and my system and server are quite optimized for my MSB. OTOH if a Pacific dac and appropriate tubes showed up on my doorstep, i would certainly give it a listen and comment. it is a dac that i am curious to know how it might sound in my system.....after my very satisfying time with the GG v1 and v1.5.

i'd bet the Pacific would love my SGM Extreme server and Gobel USB cable. likely only need the appropriate drivers loaded. need to talk to Emile (designer of the Extreme) to find out if it would screw up my current MSB optimization accommodating the Pacific and how seamless switching back and forth might be.

it would be for entertainment purposes only.......but i don't want to waste your time or shipping expenses. i guess it's possible someone here local would want to buy it after hearing it in my room.

could be a fun event.
 
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bazelio

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
2,493
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345
California
Hi,

Although my setup is sounding good, I feel that the new generation DAC's can offer a warmer and more engaging sound.
It does everything right but on many tracks, I miss the intimacy - I don't know how to explain it in words.

EMM and Esoteric are the 2 options I've looking at but definitely open to suggestions.
Try the Bricasti M21. The M1SE is really close though, and if you're not using DSD then the M1SE is the better choice for price-to-performance ratio. Both DACs are very engaging and render space very well.
 

manjy

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2011
53
18
913
Try the Bricasti M21. The M1SE is really close though, and if you're not using DSD then the M1SE is the better choice for price-to-performance ratio. Both DACs are very engaging and render space very well.

Thanks..

Been hearing a lot of good things about the Merging Stack: Nadac + Clock + Power Supply.
Does anyone have any experience with these? How does it compare to the other DAC's at this level?
 

LampiNA

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2015
347
858
335
thanks Fred, for the generous offer.

honestly i'm not in any way in the market for a dac. and my system and server are quite optimized for my MSB. OTOH if a Pacific dac and appropriate tubes showed up on my doorstep, i would certainly give it a listen and comment. it is a dac that i am curious to know how it might sound in my system.....after my very satisfying time with the GG v1 and v1.5.

i'd bet the Pacific would love my SGM Extreme server and Gobel USB cable. likely only need the appropriate drivers loaded. need to talk to Emile (designer of the Extreme) to find out if it would screw up my current MSB optimization accommodating the Pacific and how seamless switching back and forth might be.

it would be for entertainment purposes only.......but i don't want to waste your time or shipping expenses. i guess it's possible someone here local would want to buy it after hearing it in my room.

could be a fun event.

Hi Mike,

I understand the MSB has kept you happy--I was just of the opinion this might be a fun experiment, with no expectations of you purchasing at the end. We're very proud of what we've accomplished as of late and would welcome your feedback in a familiar setting.

I will speak with Lukasz after the factory returns from their sailing expedition and get a plan in action. ;)

Best,

Fred A.
 
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Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,368
4,410
Hi Mike,

I understand the MSB has kept you happy--I was just of the opinion this might be a fun experiment, with no expectations of you purchasing at the end. We're very proud of what we've accomplished as of late and would welcome your feedback in a familiar setting.

I will speak with Lukasz after the factory returns from their sailing expedition and get a plan in action. ;)

Best,

Fred A.

when i saw Lukasz at Axpona he did mention he might visit me when he could co-ordinate a ski trip to Washington State. sounds like we could really have some fun stuff going on.

i'm game.
 

SuperDave

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2017
252
78
158
Texas
Has anyone listened to the Nagra HD Dac X? I've read limited information and its significantly more costly.

Dave
 

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