DAC's Which Convert PCM to DSD

[mikey8811]

Hi

Does anyone have a list of DAC's which convert PCM to DSD?

I can think of the following:

PS Audio Direct Stream
dCS

That's about it. I believe there may be some at all price points but do not know them.

I looked at the Cary 200ts but while it plays most formats out there, I don't think it converts PCM to DSD.

Thanks

 

[JackD201]

Emmlabs at least when I used them converted everything to DSD.

 

[bonzo75]

Better to convert PCM to DSD outside the dac, using an upsampling software and feed the upsampled DSD natively through a dac's DSD engine. My guess why software is better is they keep improving as they are much lower cost, agile, dedicated and flexible engineers than those dedicated to upsampling on dacs.

 

[scouter]

What are the different up sampling software packages, and pros and cons of each?
thanks

 

[Audioseduction]

Why up sample when you can't get anymore information that's in digital file? I think it's better to listen to it at it's native resolution.

 

[bonzo75]

Why up sample when you can't get anymore information that's in digital file? I think it's better to listen to it at it's native resolution.

Yes but teh question was about upsampling

 

[bonzo75]

What are the different up sampling software packages, and pros and cons of each?
thanks

HQPlayer with Roon gives good quality and gui, there was no gui till Roon came in, and before that people used jriver which did not have the same SQ but good gui. Hence my point things keep improving with S/w on gui and SQ front, and at low cost. Try Bughead for native, horrid gui though so haven't tried it but reputed to have even better SQ and is free. Soon expect a gui friendly s/w with that quality. Every year there is something new.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

HQPlayer with Roon gives good quality and gui, there was no gui till Roon came in, and before that people used jriver which did not have the same SQ but good gui. Hence my point things keep improving with S/w on gui and SQ front, and at low cost. Try Bughead for native, horrid gui though so haven't tried it but reputed to have even better SQ and is free. Soon expect a gui friendly s/w with that quality. Every year there is something new.

I'm doing the easy-squeezy all pcm -> Quad dsd with JRiver up-sampling -> dsd only Golden Gate for now; watching things get more sorted out on this whole issue. I really enjoy my JRiver and JRemote interfaces and don't want to compromise usability. obviously on dsd sources I'm good to go.

I'm doing vinyl when I'm all-in full tilt boggie anyway.

I don't stream....or intend to stream. does Roon/HQPlayer still work for me with only server based files?

 

[bonzo75]

I'm doing the easy-squeezy all pcm -> Quad dsd with JRiver up-sampling -> dsd only Golden Gate for now; watching things get more sorted out on this whole issue. I really enjoy my JRiver and JRemote interfaces and don't want to compromise usability. obviously on dsd sources I'm good to go.

I'm doing vinyl when I'm all-in full tilt boggie anyway.

I don't stream....or intend to stream. does Roon still work for me with only server based files?

Yes it seems to work on servers Why don't you post your integration questions here http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/roon-hqplayer-integration-26975/

 

[mikey8811]

Better to convert PCM to DSD outside the dac, using an upsampling software and feed the upsampled DSD natively through a dac's DSD engine. My guess why software is better is they keep improving as they are much lower cost, agile, dedicated and flexible engineers than those dedicated to upsampling on dacs.

Thanks for correcting my false impression of this. I thought upsampling within the DAC would be less fidgety but your points make sense. However, I am streaming my library through an Auralic Aries and I guess upsampling via software is not an option unless Auralic incorporates it into their streamer via a firmware update.

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks for correcting my false impression of this. I thought upsampling within the DAC would be less fidgety but your points make sense. However, I am streaming my library through an Auralic Aries and I guess upsampling via software is not an option unless Auralic incorporates it into their streamer via a firmware update.

Yes they are planning to, it's mentioned on their website. They will add future updates to both upsample to DSD as well as room correction

 

[EuroDriver]

One should add Playback Designs to the list of DAC's that convert PCM to DSD, and the NAGRA HD which gets its module from Playback Designs

HQ Player does a very good job of PCM to DSD conversion, especially when playing to the recently released T+A DAC 8 DSD that processes DSD 512. The DAC 8 DSD has a T+A in-house developed 1-bit convertor that first debuted in their PDP-3000 CD/SACD player DAC and has now trickled down to the DAC 8 platform.

The results we have been getting doing PCM to DSD 512 and DSD 64 upsampling to DSD512 have been simply stunning. There are no DAC's yet which internally convert PCM to DSD 512

For front ends / library managers to HQ Player, Sound Galleries will be offering :
- Roon for the best browsing / music discovery experience
- Kodi for the best sounding Qobuz streaming client as well as library management
- iTunes scripts for MAC folks who like to stay with what they are familiar with. The sound quality from iTunes to HQ Player is excellent as all files are converted if necessary to WAV or FLAC and written to memory and played from memory

 

[EuroDriver]

Why up sample when you can't get anymore information that's in digital file? I think it's better to listen to it at it's native resolution.

All the modern DAC chips upsample internally either to 96, 192 or 384. The big advantage is that at the higher sampling frequencies, the low pass filters which are needed to filter out the high frequency noise are at higher frequencies and have shallower slopes, and these sound less damaging to the audible range sound quality than steeper filters at lower frequencies.

It's popular and beneficial to carryout some kind of interpolation between samples, its easier to do this iterpolation at higher sample frequencies, and most listeners think it sounds better.

 

[YashN]

HQPlayer ... there was no gui till Roon came in

?

Some people expressed they don't like HQ Player's GUI, but saying there is no GUI in HQ Player is the realm of fantasy...

 

[YashN]

I don't stream....or intend to stream. does Roon/HQPlayer still work for me with only server based files?

Yes, you can definitely use HQ Player to play from a server directly to your DAC. I believe with Roon it's the same.

However, the ideal way to use HQ Player, is to use it on the Server, and then use Ethernet or Optical Fibre to a smaller device called the NAA (Network Attached Audio device), which runs a little client/FIFO buffer daemon that Miska wrote and named networkaudiodaemon. And this NAA, of course, is near your DAC (USB connection mostly).

This is to isolate the DAC from the noisy PC environment even more.

So, to reiterate, yes you can do a direct connection, but it's not the best way to use HQ Player.

 

[YashN]

My guess why software is better is they keep improving as they are much lower cost, agile, dedicated and flexible engineers than those dedicated to upsampling on dacs.

The algorithms on DACs are usually implemented in very restricted environments compared to what is possible on a modern PC.

In other words, you can have much more powerful algorithms and filters, on the PC than in the DAC itself. Furthermore, if the DAC isn't totally isolated from its internal processes prior to the actual D/A (not a trivial thing to do!), then the D/A process can suffer.

 

[bonzo75]

?

Some people expressed they don't like HQ Player's GUI, but saying there is no GUI in HQ Player is the realm of fantasy...

Yes, you are right, I meant the gui wasn't friendly

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes it seems to work on servers Why don't you post your integration questions here http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/roon-hqplayer-integration-26975/

thanks for the suggestion. I did go over there and ask that question. so far no response.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...yer-integration-26975/index13.html#post522655

 

[amirm]

thanks for the suggestion. I did go over there and ask that question. so far no response.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...yer-integration-26975/index13.html#post522655

I will take a shot at parsing your scenario and answer some of it. Hopefully it helps.

1. You have a minimized installation of Windows server. Roon is NOT supported on Windows server. But people have had luck running it. Show this to your son and get his feedback: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/windows-server-2012-r2-solved/573/51. Or just try installing Roon and see if it works. Alternatively you can install a copy of Windows 10 beside your Server OS and boot/run Roon through that.

2. HQPlayer is a network resource. You get any powerful PC on your network and install it there. Ideally you have a Core i7 machine as it is very CPU intensive.

3. You then configure Roon to cycle the bits to and from HQPlayer using your home network connection. This is simply done and is a one-time configuration.

4. You tell Roon where your files are and it will automatically scan them and load them into its library. I think you have a NAS so you just need to tell it the link/login credentials which you have done for Jriver.

5. Download the free apps for Roon for your tablet/laptop of choice. You will be managing your playback from there just like you are doing with JRemote except that the Roon version is a full copy of the Roon software. You can do everything in it from setup to configuration of your audio devices, etc.

Note that I have not tried HQPlayer . But from what I have read the above is accurate.

Good luck.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I will take a shot at parsing your scenario and answer some of it. Hopefully it helps.

1. You have a minimized installation of Windows server. Roon is NOT supported on Windows server. But people have had luck running it. Show this to your son and get his feedback: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/windows-server-2012-r2-solved/573/51. Or just try installing Roon and see if it works. Alternatively you can install a copy of Windows 10 beside your Server OS and boot/run Roon through that.

2. HQPlayer is a network resource. You get any powerful PC on your network and install it there. Ideally you have a Core i7 machine as it is very CPU intensive.

3. You then configure Roon to cycle the bits to and from HQPlayer using your home network connection. This is simply done and is a one-time configuration.

4. You tell Roon where your files are and it will automatically scan them and load them into its library. I think you have a NAS so you just need to tell it the link/login credentials which you have done for Jriver.

5. Download the free apps for Roon for your tablet/laptop of choice. You will be managing your playback from there just like you are doing with JRemote except that the Roon version is a full copy of the Roon software. You can do everything in it from setup to configuration of your audio devices, etc.

Note that I have not tried HQPlayer . But from what I have read the above is accurate.

Good luck.

thank you Amir, for the feedback. I will have my son examine the issue and maybe give it a go.