Daniele Cohen from Alsyvox visits Rhapsody.Audio

Jan 16, 2013
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#1
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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#2
Heh, Heh! A slice of audiophile heaven. How do you get people to leave? You must have a bouncer.
 
Jan 16, 2013
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#3
Heh, Heh! A slice of audiophile heaven. How do you get people to leave? You must have a bouncer.
I really do enjoy when one of the manufacturers visits for 4 days. We really exercise most of the speakers/components in my "laboratory" as we call it. Daniele just left for his travel back to Spain and I am drained of energy, but in a very good way.
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2010
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#4
Thank you for sharing. During my brief visit to Axpona this fall, the Alsyvox was by far the most realistic sounding system. Vast majority of rooms sounded like they had broken gear in comparison.

In that conference setting, they had the speaker far, far, far away from all the walls (and in a conference ballroom with a very high ceiling). How close to the walls do you have them in your shop? What's the ideal distance?

Also, which amplification sounds the best? How does the sound change when you go from solid state to tubes to SET? Kind of surprised, actually, that you used a SET. My initial gut reaction was that these things need Boulder-type of power, like Magnepans, to come alive. But obviously it's not the case. ...

Also, they only played the best recordings during the show. How forgiving is the system playing "normal" recordings?

Thanks
 
Jan 16, 2013
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#5
Thank you for sharing. During my brief visit to Axpona this fall, the Alsyvox was by far the most realistic sounding system. Vast majority of rooms sounded like they had broken gear in comparison.

In that conference setting, they had the speaker far, far, far away from all the walls (and in a conference ballroom with a very high ceiling). How close to the walls do you have them in your shop? What's the ideal distance?

Also, which amplification sounds the best? How does the sound change when you go from solid state to tubes to SET? Kind of surprised, actually, that you used a SET. My initial gut reaction was that these things need Boulder-type of power, like Magnepans, to come alive. But obviously it's not the case. ...

Also, they only played the best recordings during the show. How forgiving is the system playing "normal" recordings?

Thanks
Hi Caesar, thx for asking the interesting questions. I think you meant RMAF this fall, not Axpona. You teed it up for me, here goes:)

The Alsyvox can be as close to 1M from the back wall although I have tried them even at 1/2M and they still sound great, BUT when any of the Alsyvox models are about 1.5-2M from the back wall you get more layering on the 3D soundstage than you do if the speakers are placed closer to the back wall.

With respect to the side walls in a smaller size room you can actually have the outside (bass side) of the speakers almost touching the side wall as the energy from the speakers does not travel horizontally vs. forward and rear for the most part.

In a larger room the speakers can play very well with a large separation between them without losing the center image solidity and focus. In larger rooms it's best to play with placement, as with any speaker, to find the best spot possible with regard to sonics and personal preferences.

As with many great speakers the speakers and definitely the Alsyvox are pretty much like a microscope on what is feeding them. They sound different to the point of a completely different speaker/system when fed with say a 27 Watt SET vs. 400 Watt SS and everything in between.

Yesterday for a client that is getting Tintoretto we played the Ongaku in our large space and it sounded surprisingly good. In a smaller room and for someone that listened at moderate volume and NOT full orchestra it could be their cup of tea. This customer is actually going to use Kondo Kaguras driving the Tintoretto in a 5M X 7M room

Although when, let's say you put on the Jadis I-88 (90Watts PP Class A) the sound in the large space is more relaxed. We feel comfortable enough with the Jadis I-88 that we will be showing it with Alsyvox in April at Ascona. Going to the 170 Watt JA200's takes up the scale of the sound to another level. BIG sound/room encompassing, although it does that pretty well with the I-88.

Once you get up to say 100 Watt and preferably 200W SS amps then the different amps and the system sounds different depending on the full system chemistry (sources, preamps, power, etc). Big SS has great control of especially the bass ribbons.

I know great recordings, especially with vinyl and tape, that the pure analog recordings are el primo, although personally I listen mostly with streaming (Roon/Tidal/Qobuz) and play the music that I like vs what sonically sounds the best.

I pretty much hand the I-pad to the visitors and say "have fun". Anything you play sounds good enough to forget about the system and both enjoy and focus on the music vs. the vehicle it is being played on. There have been visitors from WBF that will confirm that my streaming via the Extreme is quite pleasing.

In the case at Rhapsody when you play the R2R or the VYGER or AF1P or even CD the sound is definitely elevated from streaming BUT again, in my terms I reach the "magic level" even with streaming and can forget about the system and that's good enough for me personally but of course some of my friends and customers ONLY use vinyl vs digital so it's really all over the place and comes down to an individuals personal preference.

Thx again for asking the detailed questions.

Here is another informative video from with Daniele talking about the original development of the Alsyvox speakers using a 12 Watt SET!
 
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cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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260
Pleasanton, CA
#6
Interesting that he developed his ribbon concept with 300b amp. Flea powered amps and ribbons have typically been like oil and water or just an oxymoron. It's nice that Alsyvox has achieved this efficiency.

Give them a free 300b amp with every speaker purchase, Heh, Heh.

With my recently acquired and highly efficient BG 75 midrange ribbons operating in the 300-7KHz range, I have been introduced to the wonders of flea powered amps again with ribbons and it is quite something. I have adopted a 2A3 amp as a daily driver for this ribbon, and it works perfectly with 45 tube as well. 300b is overkill.

I used the flea powered amps as tweeter amps over the years, but can now use them for the midrange on this ribbon. The 50 watt Wavac 572b is reserved for vinyl, because it's richness and vitality go well, but the 2a3 wins on the awesome spooky effect for routine listening. How does it compare to flea powered and horns vs. efficient ribbon? I would say very well indeed.

I have to say that the flea powered amps remain unique in their ability to render layers, space, quicksilver transients, refinement etc. The 2A3 also has airiness and freshness for want of a better terminology.
 
Jan 16, 2013
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#7
Interesting that he developed his ribbon concept with 300b amp. Flea powered amps and ribbons have typically been like oil and water or just an oxymoron. It's nice that Alsyvox has achieved this efficiency.

Give them a free 300b amp with every speaker purchase, Heh, Heh.

With my recently acquired and highly efficient BG 75 midrange ribbons operating in the 300-7KHz range, I have been introduced to the wonders of flea powered amps again with ribbons and it is quite something. I have adopted a 2A3 amp as a daily driver for this ribbon, and it works perfectly with 45 tube as well. 300b is overkill.

I used the flea powered amps as tweeter amps over the years, but can now use them for the midrange on this ribbon. The 50 watt Wavac 572b is reserved for vinyl, because it's richness and vitality go well, but the 2a3 wins on the awesome spooky effect for routine listening. How does it compare to flea powered and horns vs. efficient ribbon? I would say very well indeed.

I have to say that the flea powered amps remain unique in their ability to render layers, space, quicksilver transients, refinement etc. The 2A3 also has airiness and freshness for want of a better terminology.
LOVE 2A3's!
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2013
1,517
352
155
NYC , USA
#8
Great videos bob. Wow the store looks amazing too. I plan too see you soon , I truly enjoyed our past visits. Your a very kind person and very knowledgeable. A rare find in ultra high end audio as many are filled with snobby looks and seem to just care about a sale and little to no support. The past video you were kind enough to share sounded amazing as well as looking great.
Al D
 
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Jan 16, 2013
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#9
Great videos bob. Wow the store looks amazing too. I plan too see you soon , I truly enjoyed our past visits. Your a very kind person and very knowledgeable. A rare find in ultra high end audio as many are filled with snobby looks and seem to just care about a sale and little to no support. The past video you were kind enough to share sounded amazing as well as looking great.
Al D
Thank you Al, appreciate the kind words! Come over and visit, lot's of new toys!!!
 

Duke LeJeune

[Industry Expert]/Member Sponsor
Jul 22, 2013
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#10
The Alsyvox can be as close to 1M from the back wall although I have tried them even at 1/2M and they still sound great, BUT when any of the Alsyvox models are about 1.5-2M from the back wall you get more layering on the 3D soundstage than you do if the speakers are placed closer to the back wall. [emphasis Duke's]
This observation is very interesting to me.

Let me ask you something about the 3D soundstage you get at 1.5 to 2 meters, if you don't mind: With a good recording, when you close your eyes, does it feel more like your room's boundaries are still present but further away; or does it feel more like you are enveloped in the soundscape on the recording itself?

Also, do you notice any change in clarity, relative to shorter distances?
 
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Jan 16, 2013
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#11
This observation is very interesting to me.

Let me ask you something about the 3D soundstage you get at 1.5 to 2 meters, if you don't mind: With a good recording, when you close your eyes, does it feel more like your room's boundaries are still present but further away; or does it feel more like you are enveloped in the soundscape on the recording itself?

Also, do you notice any change in clarity, relative to shorter distances?
Hi Duke,

We listen at about 9' from the speakers. You have a full 3D holographic soundstage. If you move up to about 6' you still have the same soundstage. Also off axis you still get the soundstage.

In my room, where I have been for 19 years, you do not observe the wall boundaries. There is a definite connection between sitting at 9' between you and the soundstage. NOT like you are sitting and looking at the soundstage that is between the speakers and the rear wall. It feels more like you are connected to the soundstage. As if you were sitting in a club with the music encompassing the room, but you can see where the musicians are standing/playing.

I don't notice much difference in clarity pretty much anywhere in the room.

I don't feel exactly comfortable with my explanation, if you heard the sound in my room maybe you would articulate it differently???
 
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ALF

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
414
100
125
Southwest
#12
IMHO, Bob is really a super guy with a wonderful laboratory...as I have mentioned many times before, a super host...and now there’s that Vyger :)

Cheers!
ALF
 
Jan 16, 2013
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#13
Thank you Alan;)
 
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Duke LeJeune

[Industry Expert]/Member Sponsor
Jul 22, 2013
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Princeton, Texas
#14
Hi Duke,

We listen at about 9' from the speakers. You have a full 3D holographic soundstage. If you move up to about 6' you still have the same soundstage. Also off axis you still get the soundstage.

In my room, where I have been for 19 years, you do not observe the wall boundaries. There is a definite connection between sitting at 9' between you and the soundstage. NOT like you are sitting and looking at the soundstage that is between the speakers and the rear wall. It feels more like you are connected to the soundstage. As if you were sitting in a club with the music encompassing the room, but you can see where the musicians are standing/playing.

I don't notice much difference in clarity pretty much anywhere in the room.

I don't feel exactly comfortable with my explanation, if you heard the sound in my room maybe you would articulate it differently???
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply!

I'm a SoundLab dealer and I manufacture polydirectional speakers, so I think I understand everything you are saying. By the way, more than one person has told me at recent audio shows that the Alsyvox speakers were their favorites of the whole show. I am typically stuck in a room so I haven't heard them yet.

I see a correlation between distance from the wall and some really good things that dipoles can do, such as "It feels more like you are connected to the soundstage. As if you were sitting in a club with the music encompassing the room, but you can see where the musicians are standing/playing."

There seems to be a threshold around 10 milliseconds time delay on the arrival of the backwave, which falls right in the middle of your 1.5 to 2 meters observation, where the spatial cues which are on the recording become, for lack of better terminology, "more plausible to the ear" than the spatial cues inherent to the listening room. At that point I think the ear attaches the recording's spatial cues, rather than room's spatial cues, to the first-arrival sound. So the "sonic event" which we perceive now incorporates the recording venue's cues (whether real or engineered) rather than the playback room's cues. The perceptual result is imo a much bigger transformation than can be accounted for by the mere addition of a few more milliseconds to the backwave's bounce: I think there is a transition from "hearing the playback room" to "hearing the recording venue", again whether said venue's acoustics are real or engineered.

I think I also hear improved clarity at 1.5 to 2 meters, but maybe that's just me.

Anyway thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I think you sell magnificent equipment, and tip my virtual hat to Alsyvox in particular.

On another subject, couldn't help but notice in your avatar pic your multiple active woofers, arrayed asymmetrically in all three planes with the one to your right and the other elevated behind your left shoulder, both obviously incorporating plenty of damping material. Well done!
 
Jan 16, 2013
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#15
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply!

I'm a SoundLab dealer and I manufacture polydirectional speakers, so I think I understand everything you are saying. By the way, more than one person has told me at recent audio shows that the Alsyvox speakers were their favorites of the whole show. I am typically stuck in a room so I haven't heard them yet.

I see a correlation between distance from the wall and some really good things that dipoles can do, such as "It feels more like you are connected to the soundstage. As if you were sitting in a club with the music encompassing the room, but you can see where the musicians are standing/playing."

There seems to be a threshold around 10 milliseconds time delay on the arrival of the backwave, which falls right in the middle of your 1.5 to 2 meters observation, where the spatial cues which are on the recording become, for lack of better terminology, "more plausible to the ear" than the spatial cues inherent to the listening room. At that point I think the ear attaches the recording's spatial cues, rather than room's spatial cues, to the first-arrival sound. So the "sonic event" which we perceive now incorporates the recording venue's cues (whether real or engineered) rather than the playback room's cues. The perceptual result is imo a much bigger transformation than can be accounted for by the mere addition of a few more milliseconds to the backwave's bounce: I think there is a transition from "hearing the playback room" to "hearing the recording venue", again whether said venue's acoustics are real or engineered.

I think I also hear improved clarity at 1.5 to 2 meters, but maybe that's just me.

Anyway thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I think you sell magnificent equipment, and tip my virtual hat to Alsyvox in particular.

On another subject, couldn't help but notice in your avatar pic your multiple active woofers, arrayed asymmetrically in all three planes with the one to your right and the other elevated behind your left shoulder, both obviously incorporating plenty of damping material. Well done!
Hi Duke, SL's are AMAZING speakers, always have been.

Actually you understand "what is going on" with the way the air is moving and the reflections at a higher degree than I do. I more or less hit play and want a full wall of sound and total room encompassment with a full 3D holographic soundstage.

I would say that the Alsyvox differ from many other speakers as you can be standing in the back of the room against a side wall, where I stand a lot during shows, and it's like you are in a club, as I notice my feet tapping to the music as I would in a club type venue.

It is always better in the "sweet spot" of course but the sound is REALLY consistent around the room, EVEN standing behind the speakers.

Woof Woof:)
 
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Duke LeJeune

[Industry Expert]/Member Sponsor
Jul 22, 2013
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#16
I would say that the Alsyvox differ from many other speakers as you can be standing in the back of the room against a side wall, where I stand a lot during shows, and it's like you are in a club, as I notice my feet tapping to the music as I would in a club type venue.

It is always better in the "sweet spot" of course but the sound is REALLY consistent around the room, EVEN standing behind the speakers.
I bet it still sounds good in the next room, listening through the open doorway, with no line-of-sight to the speakers! All you can hear would be the reflected sound, and I bet it still sounds FAR more realistic than from "conventional" speakers. Imo this bodes EXTREMELY well for long-term fatigue-free listening, as it shows the ear isn't having to process spectral discrepancies between the first-arrival sound and the reverberant sound. So, I bet you can listen to the Alsyvox's all day long for three days (like at an audio show) with zero listening fatigue.
 
Jan 16, 2013
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#18

Marcus

Member Sponsor
Oct 5, 2012
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I bet it still sounds good in the next room, listening through the open doorway, with no line-of-sight to the speakers! All you can hear would be the reflected sound, and I bet it still sounds FAR more realistic than from "conventional" speakers.
This is true. I experience this “effect” every day and it’s so rewarding. At times instruments sound crazy realistic even when listening from the next room. My ex. speakers Avalon Time also did this but not nearly as good as Botticellis.
 
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#20
When Daniele Cohen from Alsyvox visited Rhapsody in early December we had a visitor from Birmingham, AL. He came in for a listen and we played the Botticelli with the Diesis hybrid integrated. On the morning of January 2 I got a call from this visitor and at that time he ordered the system that he heard at Rhapsody.

Today his Botticellis were delivered and installed. The Diesis integrated is still a few weeks away. The speakers are now going to break in before the final placement is finalized.

IMG_5507.jpeg
 
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