DCS Rossini

[MadFloyd]

Correct. I am sure either the Nadac dealer or the Esoteric dealer can explain it and tell you the specs of the clock and what cable you need. (Other branded clocks work also.) So if getting one is not a big pain in the a$$, try it. It will be a learning experience, one way or another. Or if it's too much hassle, go with dcs. Good Luck!

Thanks, caesar, I will definitely look into this deeper now.

 

[microstrip]

I've tried a couple. Stock (which was van den hul) Purist, Cardas but bought and love Transparent Reference XL. Trans to Ups is a single AES/EBU cable...

Nice ... I can get a Vivaldi - I am using the same cable in the Metronome's!

 

[caesar]

Are you saying you've heard it on the NADAC or at least know it's compatible?

Yes, I have heard it. Previously at a show, I heard the Esoteric with the clock on and off. It was a 30% improvement, but a definite must have - you couldn't go back once you heard the music that much better.

With the Nadac, it's a transformational improvement - it sounds like a completely different DAC, while maintaining NADACs hallmark transparency. It was at least twice as good, maybe 3 times. Worth a listen to check if it's your flavor of tequila.

Look, it's very fun to spend another man's money. Yet when you look at the economics, if you decide to ditch your NADAC, it will fetch you what, $7-8K* on the used market. But if you add a clock for $7-8K*, you could be set. A new Rossini is like $30K* with the clock. (And you must and WILL get the Rossini clock once you experience it with / without.) With the money saved, you can pick up a CAT preamp for $10K* that will give you greater bass weight in your system. Like I said, it's fun to live vicariously

Good Luck and Enjoy the Journey, MadFloyd!

*Prices are just my guesses

 

[Al M.]

Look, it's very fun to spend another man's money. Yet when you look at the economics, if you decide to ditch your NADAC, it will fetch you what, $7-8K* on the used market. But if you add a clock for $7-8K*, you could be set. A new Rossini is like $30K* with the clock. (And you must and WILL get the Rossini clock once you experience it with / without.) With the money saved, you can pick up a CAT preamp for $10K* that will give you greater bass weight in your system. Like I said, it's fun to live vicariously

Good Luck and Enjoy the Journey, MadFloyd!

*Prices are just my guesses

Ok, if we're already in the business of spending another man's money, let me add my two cents. I have heard both the NADAC, and the Rossini without the clock. The NADAC is really impressive -- especially hearing it the last time in MadFloyd's (Ian's) system -- but still suffers from some typical digital weaknesses (e.g., harmonically thinned-out sax sound) that the Rossini without clock fully overcomes. It thereby bridges or, at the very least, almost closes the gap to great analog (on Redbook CD!). I would bet that a clock will improve the NADAC's performance substantially, but I would be surprised if it would transform the NADAC into a Rossini, where these typical digital weaknesses (also found with my DAC) cease to exist.

Therefore, I'd go the Rossini route, and add a clock there later, if desired. As for transparency, the Rossini has it in spades as well.

 

[jfrech]

Ok, if we're already in the business of spending another man's money, let me add my two cents. I have heard both the NADAC, and the Rossini without the clock. The NADAC is really impressive -- especially hearing it the last time in MadFloyd's (Ian's) system -- but still suffers from some typical digital weaknesses (e.g., harmonically thinned-out sax sound) that the Rosssini without clock fully overcomes. It thereby bridges or, at the very least, almost closes the gap to great analog (on Redbook CD!). I would bet that a clock will improve the NADAC's performance substantially, but I would be surprised if it would transform the NADAC into a Rossini, where these typical digital weaknesses (also found with my DAC) cease to exist.

Therefore, I'd go the Rossini route, and add a clock there later, if desired. As for transparency, the Rossini has it in spades as well.

+1

 

[MadFloyd]

Yes, I have heard it. Previously at a show, I heard the Esoteric with the clock on and off. It was a 30% improvement, but a definite must have - you couldn't go back once you heard the music that much better.

With the Nadac, it's a transformational improvement - it sounds like a completely different DAC, while maintaining NADACs hallmark transparency. It was at least twice as good, maybe 3 times. Worth a listen to check if it's your flavor of tequila.

Look, it's very fun to spend another man's money. Yet when you look at the economics, if you decide to ditch your NADAC, it will fetch you what, $7-8K* on the used market. But if you add a clock for $7-8K*, you could be set. A new Rossini is like $30K* with the clock. (And you must and WILL get the Rossini clock once you experience it with / without.) With the money saved, you can pick up a CAT preamp for $10K* that will give you greater bass weight in your system. Like I said, it's fun to live vicariously

Good Luck and Enjoy the Journey, MadFloyd!

*Prices are just my guesses

Thanks, caesar, I really appreciate your thoughts. I admit that I am very curious to try one and will if I can find a dealer.

 

[MadFloyd]

Ok, if we're already in the business of spending another man's money, let me add my two cents. I have heard both the NADAC, and the Rossini without the clock. The NADAC is really impressive -- especially hearing it the last time in MadFloyd's (Ian's) system -- but still suffers from some typical digital weaknesses (e.g., harmonically thinned-out sax sound) that the Rossini without clock fully overcomes. It thereby bridges or, at the very least, almost closes the gap to great analog (on Redbook CD!). I would bet that a clock will improve the NADAC's performance substantially, but I would be surprised if it would transform the NADAC into a Rossini, where these typical digital weaknesses (also found with my DAC) cease to exist.

Therefore, I'd go the Rossini route, and add a clock there later, if desired. As for transparency, the Rossini has it in spades as well.

Thanks for your thoughts as well, Al. Of course the Rossini is so much more expensive and requires a computer in my listening room (back to that dreaded USB connection) and reports are that it doesn't sound as good with files.

Either way, good stuff to ponder here.

 

[jfrech]

Thanks for your thoughts as well, Al. Of course the Rossini is so much more expensive and requires a computer in my listening room (back to that dreaded USB connection) and reports are that it doesn't sound as good with files.

Either way, good stuff to ponder here.

Why a computer and USB? The Rossini will take a ethernet and a NAS drive...I've tried USB vs NAS...and agree...USB via computer while good, isn't as good. USB keys however are better than USB via computer...which is what I'm using current with my Vivaldi...

 

[MadFloyd]

Why a computer and USB? The Rossini will take a ethernet and a NAS drive...I've tried USB vs NAS...and agree...USB via computer while good, isn't as good. USB keys however are better than USB via computer...which is what I'm using current with my Vivaldi...

I don't think the Ethernet on the Rossini is for anything other than firmware updates.

What do you mean by USB 'keys'?

 

[PeterA]

Ok, if we're already in the business of spending another man's money, let me add my two cents. I have heard both the NADAC, and the Rossini without the clock. The NADAC is really impressive -- especially hearing it the last time in MadFloyd's (Ian's) system -- but still suffers from some typical digital weaknesses (e.g., harmonically thinned-out sax sound) that the Rossini without clock fully overcomes. It thereby bridges or, at the very least, almost closes the gap to great analog (on Redbook CD!). I would bet that a clock will improve the NADAC's performance substantially, but I would be surprised if it would transform the NADAC into a Rossini, where these typical digital weaknesses (also found with my DAC) cease to exist.

Therefore, I'd go the Rossini route, and add a clock there later, if desired. As for transparency, the Rossini has it in spades as well.

This has been my experience as well, and I would tend to agree with your suggestions, though I have not heard the NADAC recently in Ian's system. And my impression of the NADAC is heavily influenced by that direct comparison we made with the Janaki Trio on LP and digital. I don't recall hearing digititis but rather simply less resolution from the digital. It was not a difference in weight, color, or tone, but rather, in the amount of information retrieved from the LP and file.

The only caveat I would add to the above is that, remember, we heard the Rossini and NADAC digital sources in completely different systems. If I were Ian, and spending his money, I would contact Goodwin's and borrow the Rossini player, the Rossini DAC and the dCS clock. Play for four or five days and learn the differences in his system.

 

[jfrech]

I don't think the Ethernet on the Rossini is for anything other than firmware updates.

What do you mean by USB 'keys'?

True it can get firmware updates...but it's also a fully supported digital input. And in fact likely it's best input accepting up to 2x DSD and DXD bit rates.

From the dCS website:
http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/products/rossini-dac/
"Network interface on an RJ45 connector – Acts as a UPnPTM renderer in Asynchronous mode, streaming digital music from a NAS or local computer over a standard Ethernet network, decoding all major lossless formats including FLAC, WAV & AIFF at up to 24 bit 384kS/s native sample rate, plus DSD/64 & DSD/128 in DFF/DSF format."

The Rossini also can upsample what ever input rate to a higher rate. Both the ethernet input and the up sampling capability is a significant feature of the Rossini platform.

USB keys...flash memory sticks. These are my favorites:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896419-REG/SanDisk_sdcz80_064g_a75_Extreme_USB_3_0_Flash.html

From dCS again:
"USB-on-the-go interface on type A connector operating in Asynchronous mode, streams digital music from a flash drive at up to 24 bit 384kS/s plus DSD/64 or DSD/128. "

 

[MadFloyd]

True it can get firmware updates...but it's also a fully supported digital input. And in fact likely it's best input accepting up to 2x DSD and DXD bit rates.

From the dCS website:
http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/products/rossini-dac/
"Network interface on an RJ45 connector – Acts as a UPnPTM renderer in Asynchronous mode, streaming digital music from a NAS or local computer over a standard Ethernet network, decoding all major lossless formats including FLAC, WAV & AIFF at up to 24 bit 384kS/s native sample rate, plus DSD/64 & DSD/128 in DFF/DSF format."

The Rossini also can upsample what ever input rate to a higher rate. Both the ethernet input and the up sampling capability is a significant feature of the Rossini platform.

USB keys...flash memory sticks. These are my favorites:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/896419-REG/SanDisk_sdcz80_064g_a75_Extreme_USB_3_0_Flash.html

From dCS again:
"USB-on-the-go interface on type A connector operating in Asynchronous mode, streams digital music from a flash drive at up to 24 bit 384kS/s plus DSD/64 or DSD/128. "

Thanks, John. I stand corrected!

 

[Kingsrule]

Shortly, dCS will have roon endpoint capability which will make all the discussions as to how to get it to play the music files mute.......

 

[microstrip]

Shortly, dCS will have roon endpoint capability which will make all the discussions as to how to get it to play the music files mute.......

Did Roon manage to solve the issues with the classical music database?

 

[Enatai252]

Thanks for your thoughts as well, Al. Of course the Rossini is so much more expensive and requires a computer in my listening room (back to that dreaded USB connection) and reports are that it doesn't sound as good with files.

Either way, good stuff to ponder here.

As Jfrech has said....the Rossini does allow you to stream headless with its Ethernet input. I have posted before that I have the Vivadi system (sans transport) in my main system so DAC, clock and upsampler. I use the Ethernet input on the up sampler to read all my ripped CD and hi rez files stored on my NAS. I use the dCS app to control playback and upsample everything to 352/384 and 24bits also called DXD. It sounds amazing, especially with the new algorithm mapping options. If I had a large collection of SACDs I would have gotten the transport but I still love my Naim CD555 with two 555DRPS for cd spinning I also have the Rossini DAC and clock in a second room. I was torn between getting the player option but this room is my study and I will primarily just use the app to play files off my NAS or use Tidal. The Rossini basically has the DAC, umpsampler and network streamer all in one box. (In the Vivaldi the upsample and network streamer are in the upsampler box). In fact...the network streamer in Rossini is better than Vivaldi hence the new upgrade to my Vivaldi unit I am getting this fall. The Rossini DAC is very good and while not quite at theVivaldi level....it is some of the best digital out there and truly a bargain. I have heard that some preferred red book disc played on Rossini to the same file streamed but I have not experienced this. The streamed files are upsampled to DXD or DSD...I use DXD. The Vivaldi transport can beat some pcm files but that could be another thread. I do think you need a high quality system for ripping files and the server used to render the files also matters. I have a Naim HDX that rips all my files and performs the indexing and cover art collection. The files go straight onto the NAS, a qNAP 5xx pro series. I also use the Naim server to stream so my dCS apps connect to that server and that is how I play music. No computer or USB involved. The clock for the Rossini provides the benefits Jfrech has described. I use the new Valhalla cables for all my connections and have heard great things about the transparent. I suggest you try the Rossini as it may fit the bill for your digital playback....given your investment in speakers and amps....the Vivaldi benefits should also flow through if you want to spend more....but if vinyl is your thing. The Rossini might be the right choice. Good luck

 

[MadFloyd]

As Jfrech has said....the Rossini does allow you to stream headless with its Ethernet input. I have posted before that I have the Vivadi system (sans transport) in my main system so DAC, clock and upsampler. I use the Ethernet input on the up sampler to read all my ripped CD and hi rez files stored on my NAS. I use the dCS app to control playback and upsample everything to 352/384 and 24bits also called DXD. It sounds amazing, especially with the new algorithm mapping options. If I had a large collection of SACDs I would have gotten the transport but I still love my Naim CD555 with two 555DRPS for cd spinning I also have the Rossini DAC and clock in a second room. I was torn between getting the player option but this room is my study and I will primarily just use the app to play files off my NAS or use Tidal. The Rossini basically has the DAC, umpsampler and network streamer all in one box. (In the Vivaldi the upsample and network streamer are in the upsampler box). In fact...the network streamer in Rossini is better than Vivaldi hence the new upgrade to my Vivaldi unit I am getting this fall. The Rossini DAC is very good and while not quite at theVivaldi level....it is some of the best digital out there and truly a bargain. I have heard that some preferred red book disc played on Rossini to the same file streamed but I have not experienced this. The streamed files are upsampled to DXD or DSD...I use DXD. The Vivaldi transport can beat some pcm files but that could be another thread. I do think you need a high quality system for ripping files and the server used to render the files also matters. I have a Naim HDX that rips all my files and performs the indexing and cover art collection. The files go straight onto the NAS, a qNAP 5xx pro series. I also use the Naim server to stream so my dCS apps connect to that server and that is how I play music. No computer or USB involved. The clock for the Rossini provides the benefits Jfrech has described. I use the new Valhalla cables for all my connections and have heard great things about the transparent. I suggest you try the Rossini as it may fit the bill for your digital playback....given your investment in speakers and amps....the Vivaldi benefits should also flow through if you want to spend more....but if vinyl is your thing. The Rossini might be the right choice. Good luck

Thank you so much for your thoughts!

 

[microstrip]

As Jfrech has said....the Rossini does allow you to stream headless with its Ethernet input. I have posted before that I have the Vivadi system (sans transport) in my main system so DAC, clock and upsampler. I use the Ethernet input on the up sampler to read all my ripped CD and hi rez files stored on my NAS. I use the dCS app to control playback and upsample everything to 352/384 and 24bits also called DXD. (...)

Great to know. Does the Ethernet input accept DXD files?

A more general question - is the double AES/EBU DXD transmission a public standard? Are there any non DCS servers or computers that can easily play DXD in a Vivaldi DAC?

 

[Enatai252]

Great to know. Does the Ethernet input accept DXD files?

A more general question - is the double AES/EBU DXD transmission a public standard? Are there any non DCS servers or computers that can easily play DXD in a Vivaldi DAC?

Yes. The Ethernet input will decode all major lossless formats including FLAC, WAV & AIFF at up to 24 bit 384kS/s native sample rate, plus DSD/64 & DSD/128 in DFF/DSF format.

In dual aes/ebu the DAC can accept DSD data. Limited to 192k with single input

 

[microstrip]

Yes. The Ethernet input will decode all major lossless formats including FLAC, WAV & AIFF at up to 24 bit 384kS/s native sample rate, plus DSD/64 & DSD/128 in DFF/DSF format.

In dual aes/ebu the DAC can accept DSD data. Limited to 192k with single input

So people who do not own the upsampler can use HQplayer or similar upsampling software with the Vivaldi?

 

[jfrech]

So people who do not own the upsampler can use HQplayer or similar upsampling software with the Vivaldi?

Yes, in this case straight to which ever digital input on the DAC that works best in your system...