Dealing With Large Glass Windows and Doors WITHOUT Spoiling the View?

[Bobvin]

When I had my room remodeled, the acoustician commented she could deal with a single reflective surface, which meant I did not have to sacrifice my view. But, the wall does include curtains with acoustic lining, and the rest of the room is ‘treated’.

 

[Tango]

This is my point - how can we be sure that we are not simply and wrongly transposing our visual perceptions of glass, obtained mostly from its reflectivity in the optical bandwidth (400-800nm wavelength) and touch of common glass to the audio zone (20mm- 20m wavelength)? Would we have the same feeling if the glass was painted in mat black?

Never know it for sure unless you try it Micro.

 

[thedudeabides]

I've had glass in my last four houses spanning the last 35 years. Two of them had Leavalor wood blinds that you can adjust from fully open to fully closed. I've found that a minor amount of "down" tilt works quite well for dampening the reflectivity and maintaining the view. Also, large plants are quite effective in this regard as you can see in my avatar. Picture taken from my previous house in Jackson, WY.

I personally prefer a livelier room versus one that is over damped. To my ear, the music has much more "life" not to mention the positive aspects of having natural light, and a view, in your listening room. I would never build a room without windows for audio. Having natural light while listening to music is very important to me.

 

[microstrip]

Never know it for sure unless you try it Micro.

For the envisaged purpose - our nice WBF discussions - I would be happy enough if I had proper acoustic data on it ...

 

[kach22i]

Lots of great examples and ideas posted.

Seeking an alternative I looked up to see if there is any perforated MLV (mass loaded vinyl) on the market that could be made into curtains that would not 100% block out the light. I could not find any, but it might be out there if you look more than the two minutes I did.

Another off the wall but not built yet idea I just had, laminate/glue MVL to heavy duty commercial vertical blinds.

 

[kach22i]

I've had glass in my last four houses spanning the last 35 years. Two of them had Leavalor wood blinds that you can adjust from fully open to fully closed. I've found that a minor amount of "down" tilt works quite well for dampening the reflectivity and maintaining the view. Also, large plants are quite effective in this regard as you can see in my avatar. Picture taken from my previous house in Jackson, WY.

I personally prefer a livelier room versus one that is over damped. To my ear, the music has much more "life" not to mention the positive aspects of having natural light, and a view, in your listening room. I would never build a room without windows for audio. Having natural light while listening to music is very important to me.

I suspect those wood shutters painted with acoustic paint would be very effective at both diffusion and absorption while maintaining some light and some view.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

For the envisaged purpose - our nice WBF discussions - I would be happy enough if I had proper acoustic data on it ...

love it.

i'm sure glad i tested things where i did not know what the result would be ahead of time. if i had not, my system would be totally different, and maybe i would be out there collecting spoons or something instead of this dumb music stuff.

technical innocence has it's advantages. but maybe spoons would be more fun.

 

[Lagonda]

When I had my room remodeled, the acoustician commented she could deal with a single reflective surface, which meant I did not have to sacrifice my view. But, the wall does include curtains with acoustic lining, and the rest of the room is ‘treated’.

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Nice summer/ winter background.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I see it as an evolutionary process , and everybody does it differently .
You cant do everything at once .
First was speakers for me , now getting the source right, tape / tapemachines .
Final and most likely one of the most important steps i ll do as last
A Custom designed room , but thats also not cheap of course.

 

[Folsom]

This is my point - how can we be sure that we are not simply and wrongly transposing our visual perceptions of glass, obtained mostly from its reflectivity in the optical bandwidth (400-800nm wavelength) and touch of common glass to the audio zone (20mm- 20m wavelength)? Would we have the same feeling if the glass was painted in mat black?

There's no question people are doing this... It's a logical step to be afraid of sound off of glass when you've only heard double pane windows reflecting. They don't reflect a lot but they resonate with the worst frequency ranges they could, so they always sound bad. Everyone just needs someone to sell them audio specific glass for a premium that's just safety glass, and then they'll start believing it.

Tang even admitted it was visual placebo for him, as he has horns and sound was good uncovered, but paranoia was a big problem. (he has safety glass btw)

I have safety glass in my room for another purpose but ended up covering my windows with it. The only thing that stops me from leaving my blinds open 100% when listening is a freakishly-hellishly bright LED street lamp from hell. (anyone is welcome to shoot it out for me) . I have zero desire to cover a view up, especially when only placebo affects are there to stop me. In fact I think about planning my stereo in the main living room in my next place, and having a wall of windows (safety glass).

 

[Bobvin]

The room—not the sexy expenditure; but at least as critical as the speakers IMHO. And, of course, you can’t just resell it if you don’t like the result.

 

[ChristopherBell]

Thanks for your kind words Mike. I recently upgraded my speakers from Kudos Titan's to ProAc K6 Signatures. I will have to invite you back for a listen once they run-in.

I'm no acoustician but I make a great sound with no edge or fatigue. Could it be better? Sure, but combining hi-fi with everyday life requires compromises. A big part of good hi-fi is well engineered electronics and meticulous attention to setup. Do your best with what you have to work with.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks for your kind words Mike. I recently upgraded my speakers from Kudos Titan's to ProAc K6 Signatures. I will have to invite you back for a listen once they run-in.

I'm no acoustician but I make a great sound with no edge or fatigue. Could it be better? Sure, but combining hi-fi with everyday life requires compromises. A big part of good hi-fi is well engineered electronics and meticulous attention to setup. Do your best with what you have to work with.

Chris, i just spoke the truth. i loved what i heard. look forward to hearing it again with your ProAc A6 Sig's.

your picture looks fabulous! (likely does not hurt that you are a pro at that). and still does not do justice to the drama of that view and your setting.

cheers,

Mike

 

[christoph]

There's no question people are doing this... It's a logical step to be afraid of sound off of glass when you've only heard double pane windows reflecting. They don't reflect a lot but they resonate with the worst frequency ranges they could, so they always sound bad. Everyone just needs someone to sell them audio specific glass for a premium that's just safety glass, and then they'll start believing it.

Tang even admitted it was visual placebo for him, as he has horns and sound was good uncovered, but paranoia was a big problem. (he has safety glass btw)

I have safety glass in my room for another purpose but ended up covering my windows with it. The only thing that stops me from leaving my blinds open 100% when listening is a freakishly-hellishly bright LED street lamp from hell. (anyone is welcome to shoot it out for me) . I have zero desire to cover a view up, especially when only placebo affects are there to stop me. In fact I think about planning my stereo in the main living room in my next place, and having a wall of windows (safety glass).

Would it be possible to laminate/glue a transparent additional layer over the existing very thick and very heavy triple glazed windows for good effect?
I "think" my huge windows act like an absorber for the bass, more than they are bad from reflexions.
To make my windows less flexible would probably make then less absorbing bass energy...

 

[christoph]

Thanks for your kind words Mike. I recently upgraded my speakers from Kudos Titan's to ProAc K6 Signatures. I will have to invite you back for a listen once they run-in.

I'm no acoustician but I make a great sound with no edge or fatigue. Could it be better? Sure, but combining hi-fi with everyday life requires compromises. A big part of good hi-fi is well engineered electronics and meticulous attention to setup. Do your best with what you have to work with.


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How extremely beautiful!!!

 

[Folsom]

Would it be possible to laminate/glue a transparent additional layer over the existing very thick and very heavy triple glazed windows for good effect?
I "think" my huge windows act like an absorber for the bass, more than they are bad from reflexions.
To make my windows less flexible would probably make then less absorbing bass energy...

I don't know. I have to imagine it's possible but I really have no idea if window installers do that.

Since you mostly use directional horns the majority of energy that reaches them will be bass since everything else is just going forward for the most part. The thing with any material is unless it's very substantial the low bass does tend to get through it. I imagine the larger a window the easier it passes. Your intuition about strengthening that is probably spot on. Although a subwoofer swarm might be more practical.

 

[rugyboogie]

When window gets bigger in overall height and width and pending wind loads in local areas the glass thickness gets sized accordingly. If glass goes to floor then the inner glass pane needs to be at a minimum tempered. Most picture window frames are limited in the glazing thickness that they can receive. Windows frames made of wood, steel, aluminum, copper, fibreglass & vinyl typically can take a glazing thickness of up to 1-1/2 inches. Most areas use double pane and triple pane glass which fills this rather quickly if using 12mm spacers which is really a minimum to achieve good U value.
If you design your room with the intent of having glass behind the speakers I would use 12mm laminated to another 12mm for rigidity.
Many window manufacturers won't accommodate this for many reasons, weight being one of them.
Most window companies would typically use 4,5,6 mil out board, spacer then 5,6 on the inside.
One of my projects we are using triple glazing where the glazing component is 2" thick.

Christopher Bell and Bobvin you have stunning setting set ups with fantastic views.

My present listening room, I have no windows. When we build it in 2000, thought that this was as get as it gets for sound. Maybe but I loose all perspective to surroundings and time of day . My new place on the island does have two windows behind the speakers and yes my glass is triple glazed with outboard and inboard being lami glass.

Folsom
Locally we have companies that can apply film on the outside or inside surfaces to help mitigate solar heat gain. They are typically solar control or security film companies, never the window people.

 

[nonesup]

When I had my room remodeled, the acoustician commented she could deal with a single reflective surface, which meant I did not have to sacrifice my view. But, the wall does include curtains with acoustic lining, and the rest of the room is ‘treated’.

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Hi Bob. In my opinion you have the most beautiful audio room I have ever seen. It must be wonderful to listen to music with the vision of the forest.

 

[Bobvin]

Hi Bob. In my opinion you have the most beautiful audio room I have ever seen. It must be wonderful to listen to music with the vision of the forest.

Very kind of you to say so. Thank you. Had a very late night listening just the other night, only lights in the room came from the meters on the Ref 160s, and I can adjust brightness on my landscape lights so the contrast is easy on the eyes. It is indeed wonderful to have the nature view and the changes of the seasons to be part of my listening enjoyment. And when it is a cold, wet, stormy night fun to watch the trees moving around like waves on the ocean.

 

[Kingsrule]

Christopher Bell....your room is stunning....one of the best I have ever seen....